Judoist submitting a Bjj guy?

Yuki Nakai? He's a BJJ guy now, no? A Judoka can beat a BJJer. It depends on the individual's skills, abilities, and techniques. Judo is the parent art of BJJ.

to answer your question, yes i have seen it and experienced it personally and my question is "why is it such a surprise?"..

most if not all bjj blackbelts would definitely dominate over judo bb given their training and proficiency in groundfighting..

one thing always misses in these threads and that is not all judo bb are the same..the vast majority are recreational of all ages, not former elite competitors...unlike bjj, with fewer bb who obtain their rank by enlarge from successful sport competitions and many years training...

remember that judo fighters have preferences for ground work, and there are many who are extremely good at it and win consistently with submissions..

the major differences is the approach to the strategy of judo ground work (ie top control with pinning for position) vs guard work...

in judo, judo bb beat judo bb from other clubs and countries in training constantly, and it is no big deal in training..like "you got me this time, good job, lets go again and maybe i will get you"..in my experience this is why tapping out in judo training is not a huge deal, not the same with bjj philosophy...

in judo, you prove your performance by competition, not practice..i have seen so many guys beat every one up in practice, but inevitably choke when it comes to tournaments..

for the record, bjj bb and judo bb (those who have good fighting experience) are comparable and will take different strategies in fighting one another..it is all about making the other player play your game..

"Judo is the parent art of BJJ."

I've always thought of BJJ as an extension of Japanese Jiu Jitsu. Judo is also an extension of Japanese Jiu Jitsu, however, Judo is predominantly a sport, with rules and techniques for the sport.

Aren't the Camarillos black belts in BJJ as well as judo?

Martialartsfan, that judo bb was sanae kikuta. And he didnt submit anyone in that event. He won all his matches on points.

The real question is have you seen a Judo who is under brown belt submit a BJJ Black Belt?  I was able to submit a Judo Black Belt with BJJ, when I was still a White Belt (almost Blue) in BJJ.  I caught him with a choke and made him tap.  The guy was good, he destroyed me when he first grappled, but he wasn't as good as the Blues and Purples at my BJJ school.  I can only imagine my Black Belt instructor would have gone through him easily. 

I realize this is only one instance and one Judoka, but there are other stories that have been floating around here for years.

I have seen bjj players tapped out by judo people. Typically when the judoka got a good throw which landed him in a dominant position to work from. There was also a tournament called Ne-Waza Neurosis that had a lot of bjj players against judo guys. There was also one wrestler who dominated everyone even though his knowledge of subs were basically hammerlock, arm triangle(both of these are allowed in wrestling) and the Americana which I am not sure where he learned.

"...won Abud Dhabi. So he must have submitted a lot of good fighters"

Ricardo Arona is the man in ADCC, but he's never actually submitted anyone. He's won all of his matches by points.

"I have seen Dan Camarillo (BB in Judo) tap just about everybody he's rolled with.Dave is pretty good at submitting people as well:)!"

I believe both Dan & David Camarillo are Ralph Gracie black belts.

It would probably depend on the judoka and the club he trains at. Also I beleive a blackbelt in judo means that a person just knows the basics. It does not mean that they are the best.

when i was younger, i did judo. Did it for 5 years...was only a green belt though..people were hinting that I was ready for blue when I left. After about a years break I came back to grappling...but I went for bjj instead. I got destroyed by the most novice of white belts. People with 3 months of bjj were bitchslapping me without trouble.

I think that says more about me, my old judo club and my new bjj club than it does about the respective sports though.

Flavio Canto has tapped a few I believe (one example Shaolin Ribeiro), there has to be a reason he cant compete in bjj comps.

Oh yeah, dont forget about Neil Adams armbarring Royce.

I've seen it done. There are many good judokas out there. Usually it was a black belt judoka against a blue belt bjj. When I was a yellow belt I challenged an Olympic silver medalist in judo and after getting to the ground I tapped him out. As for judo BB against BJJ BB, I'm sure it has happened too.

What about Flavio Canto? And Neil Adams?

"Flavio Canto has tapped a few I believe (one example Shaolin Ribeiro),
there has to be a reason he cant compete in bjj comps."

Well he keeps competing in the worlds and olympics, as well as placing
well in other high level judo tournaments. He wins a large % of his
matches on the ground.

Also, maybe he doesnt want to.

Dave Camarillo has submitted a BJJ black belt and he is a Judo black.

Is not Camarillo bb in bjj too?

"Oh yeah, dont forget about Neil Adams armbarring Royce."

Let's also not forget Royce saying that never happened and that he's never even met Neil Adams.

The story was Neil and Royce were (key word) training.

I heard Neil Adams tapped Rorion a couple times when they were sparring during training.

Neil's a world champ though, isn't he?

Isn't that the equivalent of Rickson throwing Neil's brother, Gentleman Chris Adams, for ippon. :)

Max

Comparing a bb in Judo to a bb in BJJ is like comparing apples to oranges.

A bb in Judo means shit. You can get a bb in Judo with 3 solid years of continuous training and provided you rack up enough competition points. Black belt in Judo means that you have learned the basic techniques and are "ready to learn".

A bb in BJJ is a special accomplishment. It takes YEARS to accomplish this. There are guys who have trained in BJJ for 10 years consistently and still haven't gotten their blacks. Black belt in BJJ means that you have "mastered the techniques" and are at a pinacle.

As far as a Judo bb tapping a Bjj bb... two words....

Pawel Nastula.