Thesz said in his own words said that Karl knew more Hooks than him (submission holds) but he also said he knew enough wrestling to counter Karl's hooks. My Real Beef with the issue is this everyone act's as if Karl is the massiah of Catchwrestling.. granted he did a lot of work behind the seens in japan.
But as far as proveing his skill as a catchwrestler not if not any so much to the point, Wrestling History buffs ( I will not do any name droping) have looked up and asked around and found out everytime Karl went back to Wigan or the Pit he was Hooked or pinned.
Karl was a good submission master lets leave it at that than he is Christ in the flesh.
Um, I don't know who is attributing messianic powers to Karl lol. Certainly
not me.
Regarding the wrestling history buffs you cite, please do name names
since I'd love to hear what they have to say specifically. I can go straight
to the source and ask (that is if you are interested in hearing both sides of
the story, especially from the man that was there, not just history "buffs")
I tend to subscribe to the "great man" theory of history and do firmly
believe that it can be easily argued that if it wasn't for Karl's efforts,
especially in Japan, that many techniques of Catch Wrestling would have
disappeared. Also, many of the men that were there that I speak to testify
to Karl's prowess but not so much for Lou. (Again, I think I am repeating
this for the 7th time on this thread, Lou was tough and a good wrestler be
sure to get that, just not the best...)
I, for one, have never put forward the thought of karl as the messiah of catch wrestling. I have always shown more preference to billy wicks and dick cardinal- simply because I've been in contact with them for years. however, I do strongly respect karl's abilities as a legitimate shooter and teacher. It is interesting when you compare what Karl does and what Billy Wicks and Dick Cardinal do you don't find standing achilles locks, half boston crabs, indian deathlocks, and flipping the guard into a step-over toehold...I wonder why?
This thread would started in finding out if gotch was still active today.
"lou bashing"no ,just reporting on what I have been told by others.Hell,even ed lewis said thez wasn't that good.
karl gotch "the second coming"go back and read the beging of the thread !I wouldn't sit around and bash lou ,I think he was dangerous,but just not as much as you have been lead to believe.I promise he was protected.If someone strolls into the gym off the street,and beats lou,then what?Then the world champ doesn't look so crediable.That dosen't mean lou sucked !He was a hansome fellow,who could perfom well,and he knew how to wrestle.Lou was a big earner for the permotion,and they wanted to keep it that way!
Lou was probably better than most of the guys you see in mma ,today!Though I just can't rank him as high as others.
For the record,Jake ,sorry this has turned into something it shouldn't have!
Drew ,either call me or shoot me an e-mail about that machine you told me about,and I got some stuff to share with you!
So we are jake's "cronies"and we are clouding the status of thez?For the record husband of "think natilie portman"I never have even talked to jake outside of this forum.Seeing how you love your jiu jitsu ,why don't you stay over on the jiu jitsu board.
You must have been one tony's boys???Is this why you are upset over THE TRUTH?
never met jake,tony,matt or know jackshit about jiu jitsu,brazillian or otherwise.Been into to old school wrestling for the last 30 years.BTW,you're just jealous of my portman-esque wife.All we are saying is give peace a chance.Therefore,i shall protest passive resistantly against sith by remaining off the board this weekend.Down with the voice of disention!! I:E,me
No conspiracy Parlati, please just re-read everyone's post. There is
respect for Lou, everyone is just independently trying to get a
non-"kayfabe" historical picture duing a "kayfabe" time period. There just
is not a lot of evidence of Lou's skills under a competitive, non-worked
environment
"give peace a chance"oh is not peaceful to state the truth. btw,what do you mean "you don't know jiu jitsu",you should read your other post"I'm with ronco gracie,hopefully will pass my belt test soon"I'm confused ,so what is the truth ? Thanks for playing
From his past posts both here and at the history forum I know that de braco is a big fan of old-school wrestling and very knowledgable on the subject of catch history. I think if you go back and read his posts on this thread from the start it's pretty obvious that he is posting with heavy sarcasm.
So everything he's said about catch wrestling is sarcastic? This thread was intended to see if anyone was training with Mr.Gotch right now!Not sure how him cracking at jake ,and calling the rest of us "cronies"is being sarcastic.It seems disrespectful to me .As far as the thez thing goes,I'm just stating the facts!
My guess would be that he took offence to something said about Thesz? Not sure? I noticed him posting with some major sarcasm on the carnies thread too.