Kawhi Leonard > Scottie Pippen- Jordan

Scottie Pippen was a hell of a player on the Bulls when Jordan was playing there. Take Jordan off his team and Kawhi Leonard is a better player. I think he can do almost everything Pippen does, but he can create his own shot better, has a better J, and is more clutch.

Pippen wasn't up to the challenge of being the man IMO.

Pippen was a very good player and great defender, but a bit overrated IMO. 

scrapdo -

Pippen was a very good player and great defender, but a bit overrated IMO. 

I agree. With Jordan he was the ultimate second banana. He was a hawk on defense, he could rebound, put the ball on the ground and either finish or pass. I thought he wasn't a very good clutch shooter and he was prone to meltdowns when Jordan wasnt there to control him.

Pippen wasn't half the player Leonard is.

Val Larralde -


Pippen wasn't half the player Leonard is.

That is a bit much

Little premature saying Leabord is vastly better than a hall of famer and 6 time champ.

This is like the Draymond vs Barkley thread.

Yes, Kawhi is a top 5 player in the NBA right now... But just because you're seeing him play today doesn't make him better than a hall of famer from 20 years ago.

RdotC - Little premature saying Leabord is vastly better than a hall of famer and 6 time champ.

This is like the Draymond vs Barkley thread.

Yes, Kawhi is a top 5 player in the NBA right now... But just because you're seeing him play today doesn't make him better than a hall of famer from 20 years ago.
Been watching him a long time and watched Pippen play his whole career. I think Kawhi is better.

You do have a point thouh Pppens resume is impressive and Kawhi has a ways to go to match or exceed it. I will say that thus far Kawhi is better.

c'mon... pippen's 6 championships lol...
correction the was a member of jordans 6 championships...

he never won on his own or even had a finals MVP...

Can Kawhi play point forward?

UltimateKeyboardWarrior - Can Kawhi play point forward?
Not as good as Pippen but yes!

What figure 4 said.

Lol

Pippen was better than Kawhi at every aspect of basketball

Pippen sucked. He being elected one of the 50 best players of all time is the biggest travesty in the history of history. Without Jordan he was dogshit.

I once saw him get banned from Excalibur, The Chicago Club at the time, for stiffing his waitress on a 2K bill. We were waiting in line outside, and he and his boys pull up in an escalade and basically just try to walk right in. Get totally stonewalled by security, then the owner or manager comes out and basically tells him to fuck off and that he's not welcome there anymore. It was glorious.

No tippin' Scottie Pippen was hated by everyone in the Chicago restaurant industry.

Tim Duncan - 
RdotC - Little premature saying Leabord is vastly better than a hall of famer and 6 time champ.

This is like the Draymond vs Barkley thread.

Yes, Kawhi is a top 5 player in the NBA right now... But just because you're seeing him play today doesn't make him better than a hall of famer from 20 years ago.
Been watching him a long time and watched Pippen play his whole career. I think Kawhi is better.

So in Pippen's prime, he was putting up 22pts, 3 steals, a block, 5.5 assists, and 8 boards.

Kawhi just hit his prime and is putting up 23 pts, 1 block, 2 steals, 3 assists, and 6 boards.

So anyone saying Pippen sucked or that Kawhi is far better is just silly.

Also, you have to think about a full career. Pippen was All-NBA more seasons that Kawhi has even played at this point. So we will see if Kawhi can put up these numbers for a decade and pick up a handful of more championships.

Kawhi awards/etc
NBA champion (2014)
NBA Finals MVP (2014)
2× NBA All-Star (2016, 2017)
All-NBA First Team (2016)
2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2015, 2016)
2× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2015, 2016)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2014)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2012)
NBA steals leader (2015)

Pippen awards/etc
6× NBA champion (1991–1993, 1996–1998)
7× NBA All-Star (1990, 1992–1997)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (1994)
3× All-NBA First Team (1994–1996)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1992, 1997)
2× All-NBA Third Team (1993, 1998)
8× NBA All-Defensive First Team (1992–1999)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (1991, 2000)
NBA steals leader (1995)
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team

Kawhi is better.

But Pippen is greatly underrated by many MJ worshipers. Pippen was a top 10 player in the league for years. And he did fine, hell he was an MVP candidate, the year Jordan played baseball.

Peak Kawhi (assuming this is his peak) is definitely better than peak Pippen. Pippen's best seasons were just over a 0.200 WS/48 and he only topped 13 WS once in his entire career. 25 year old Kawhi already has two seasons of 13+ WS with a 0.250+ WS/48. In fact, Kawhi's career WS/48 (0.219) is higher than Pippen's best single season WS/48 (0.209).

Kawhi is certainly having the better career than Pippen had at the same age. The only question remaining is whether Kawhi can remain injury free and highly productive into his late 30s like Pippen did.

Steve4192 - Peak Kawhi (assuming this is his peak) is definitely better than peak Pippen. Pippen's best seasons were just over a 0.200 WS/48 and he only topped 13 WS once in his entire career. 25 year old Kawhi already has two seasons of 13+ WS with a 0.250+ WS/48. In fact, Kawhi's career WS/48 (0.219) is higher than Pippen's best single season WS/48 (0.209).

Kawhi is certainly having the better career than Pippen had at the same age. The only question remaining is whether Kawhi can remain injury free and highly productive into his late 30s like Pippen did.

Not a fan of WS/48. It basically penalizes the 80's/90s where players would sit less. Generally a guy playing 38 minutes per game isn't going to put up the same per minute stats as a guy playing 30.

Regardless, its hard to compare the two as Kawhi is clearly the #1 guy in San Antonio while Pippen was always the #2 option.

So if we compare defense... Pippen puts up a better defensive win shares number than Kawhi, and the counting stats back that up.

Kawhi definitely puts up better offensive stats, however. But at that point we would be comparing apples to oranges.