His stuff works. But like most self-defense oriented material it's better when supplemented by a solid boxing/wrestling base.
Missing Glove Tape - His stuff works.
-Says who? And why?
Missing Glove Tape - His stuff works. But like most self-defense oriented material it's better when supplemented by a solid boxing/wrestling base.
Against who? And how?
Oh boy. Here come the bjj cultists! lol
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
How? By pressure testing the material, same as anyone/anything else.
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
This is such a fallacy. Military and LEOs are in no way at the cutting edge of hand to hand combat. Very few of their unarmed physical confrontations are one on one, and their average subject is definitely not an MMA fighter.
But to be equally fair, "did it one-on-one against an MMA fighter" is not the standard of effectiveness either.
If LEOs are using it effectively, then it is, by definition, effective. To say that it "works" is accurate.
twinkletoesCT - But to be equally fair, "did it one-on-one against an MMA fighter" is not the standard of effectiveness either.
If LEOs are using it effectively, then it is, by definition, effective. To say that it "works" is accurate.
Exactly.
Is Gracie combatives state of the art material? Nope. It's just solid fundamentals that have stood the test of time. McCann's material is no different. It's simple stuff that has been put to use by the people who need it in the environment(s) it was intended. While I stand by my own criticisms, no one has a monopoly on effectiveness and his reputation in those circles is what it is because he gets results.
I would much rather military and law enforcement continue learning variations of the chin jab, as seen below, then switch to superman punches and/or playing rubber guard as a means of arresting people and surviving life/death situations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXzvpnkvm0
All of the defenses on that video were designed to work when people did the techniques incorrectly to begin with. It's not training against MMA or grappling practitioners, it's training against imitators who don't know how to do the things correctly and just picked up junk from watching TUF episodes. Shooting from outside of kicking range, a thai clinch that doesn't squeeze the elbows together, doesn't disrupt balance and someone reaching for the clinch from long range without setting it up with strikes, submission holds that are fundamentally flawed, etc, just about anything they showed would work against the flawed things his helper was doing.
I'd listen to anything McCann has to say on the areas he actually knows about and used in his military career (firearms, tactics, etc). For a real world defense against grappling or mma, I'd look at people who know how to grapple and actually train for MMA instead of someone who clearly doesn't know a lot about it trying to sell DVD's and make money. YMMV
Skpotamus - All of the defenses on that video were designed to work when people did the techniques incorrectly to begin with. It's not training against MMA or grappling practitioners, it's training against imitators who don't know how to do the things correctly and just picked up junk from watching TUF episodes. Shooting from outside of kicking range, a thai clinch that doesn't squeeze the elbows together, doesn't disrupt balance and someone reaching for the clinch from long range without setting it up with strikes, submission holds that are fundamentally flawed, etc, just about anything they showed would work against the flawed things his helper was doing.
I'd listen to anything McCann has to say on the areas he actually knows about and used in his military career (firearms, tactics, etc). For a real world defense against grappling or mma, I'd look at people who know how to grapple and actually train for MMA instead of someone who clearly doesn't know a lot about it trying to sell DVD's and make money. YMMV
this.
it sounds as if he threw teh grapplign and mma speak in for sales, not out of real knowledge of those areas.
Skpotamus - All of the defenses on that video were designed to work when people did the techniques incorrectly to begin with. It's not training against MMA or grappling practitioners, it's training against imitators who don't know how to do the things correctly and just picked up junk from watching TUF episodes. Shooting from outside of kicking range, a thai clinch that doesn't squeeze the elbows together, doesn't disrupt balance and someone reaching for the clinch from long range without setting it up with strikes, submission holds that are fundamentally flawed, etc, just about anything they showed would work against the flawed things his helper was doing.
I'd listen to anything McCann has to say on the areas he actually knows about and used in his military career (firearms, tactics, etc). For a real world defense against grappling or mma, I'd look at people who know how to grapple and actually train for MMA instead of someone who clearly doesn't know a lot about it trying to sell DVD's and make money. YMMV
end of thread n VTFU
twinkletoesCT - But to be equally fair, "did it one-on-one against an MMA fighter" is not the standard of effectiveness either.
If LEOs are using it effectively, then it is, by definition, effective. To say that it "works" is accurate.
I still see no reason to teach people, especially security personnel, moves that would never work on the average trained individual, even if they may work on chumps. I'll take MMA-based tactical self defense curricula like SouthNarc's over McCann's any day.
Missing Glove Tape - Oh boy. Here come the bjj cultists! lol
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
How? By pressure testing the material, same as anyone/anything else.
-Bullshit and bullshit.
BEEF & CHEESE -Missing Glove Tape - Oh boy. Here come the bjj cultists! lol
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
How? By pressure testing the material, same as anyone/anything else.
-Bullshit and bullshit.
LOL. Source?
Missing Glove Tape -BEEF & CHEESE -Missing Glove Tape - Oh boy. Here come the bjj cultists! lol
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
How? By pressure testing the material, same as anyone/anything else.
-Bullshit and bullshit.
LOL. Source?
-You made the claims, you must provide the evidence.
BEEF & CHEESE -Missing Glove Tape -BEEF & CHEESE -Missing Glove Tape - Oh boy. Here come the bjj cultists! lol
Says who? The military and law enforcement offficers who use his material day to day.
How? By pressure testing the material, same as anyone/anything else.
-Bullshit and bullshit.
LOL. Source?
-You made the claims, you must provide the evidence.
Kelly's reputation and there being no shortage of Military/LEO wanting to train with him speaks for itself. You calling him, them, and their training paradigm bullshit doesn't hold water. Not when there's footage out there of the material working, as per the clip I posted, as well as training footage of Kelly & Co. pressure testing the material. If he's just another TMA fag and the shit doesn't work, then why do he place such a premium on protective equipment be adequate to they training they do? Take the mma goggles off and stop sucking the Gracie teet for awhile and you might just learn something.
He sucks at grappling. He has no business teaching it.
The people in this forum and posting on this thread are very experienced. Some of them even Military/LEO.
By all means link some footage of his stuff working.
Are you him? Or a business partner?
BEEF & CHEESE - He sucks at grappling. He has no business teaching it.
He's not 'teaching' grappling. He's offering strategies for dealing with it in serious situations that devolve into protracted grappling contests.
BEEF & CHEESE - The people in this forum and posting on this thread are very experienced. Some of them even Military/LEO.
And?
BEEF & CHEESE - By all means link some footage of his stuff working.
I did.
BEEF & CHEESE - Are you him? Or a business partner?
Yes. That's why I'm on an mma forum posting a pirated copy of a product I have a vested interest in. My gawd, man! lol
You should read Skpotamus' post.
McCann is offering strategies that won't work against anybody with skills. Just like the TMA douchebags did circa 1995.
The experienced grapplers here think he sucks. Maybe you should heed their opinions.
I saw no evidence of his material working on an experienced combat athlete. I'm not watching an hour of that shit.
You're either trolling or stupid.
^The first part should read: "He's offering strategies for dealing with it in serious situations that won't devolve into protracted grappling contests."
BEEF & CHEESE - You should read Skpotamus' post.
McCann is offering strategies that won't work against anybody with skills. Just like the TMA douchebags did circa 1995.
The experienced grapplers here think he sucks. Maybe you should heed their opinions.
I saw no evidence of his material working on an experienced combat athlete. I'm not watching an hour of that shit.
You're either trolling or stupid.
Oh, so you haven't watched it yet you're slinging shit? And I'm trolling? LMFAO
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but who here are these highly skilled grapplers that are also Military/LEO who're saying the material won't work? Which of them has trained with McCann to call him a bullshitter? Drilled the material and/or had it used against them? There's no denying McCann could benefit from a solid grappling background, I've said it myself. But to make patent statements that it's bullshit? Nah. Not when there are still mma fights/fighters being affected by the use and outcome of foul tactics. Moreover I was just watching Marc Denny's kali tudo video the other day and found his ideas on palm strikes/open hand slaps to be very interesting. He was talking about the effect they have on an opponent, especially when they get smacked in the back of the head. He even went so far as to show a clip of him in a stick fight where he essentially KO'd his opponent with a couple of open hand shots. They were wrestling around on the ground with Marc more or less trying to recover guard and he popped the guy in the back a couple of times, causing him to raise up dazed/confused before falling flat onto his back where he basically lost consciousness for a moment or two. That type of thing is exactly what McCann is trying to get across in this clip. Not a TMA mindset that foul tactics are all you need, but that with knowledge(ie: understanding what an mmer will try) combined with sudden, violent action is certainly an ally in surviving/avoiding dangerious situations.