Ken after the second fall

I can accept the first fall was a sloppy manuever to set up for a leg submission, and the second fall being due to a poor high kick attempt.

However, can anyone explain why they think Ken did nothing when he was on the ground after the second slip/fall? He hadn't taken any significant damage before that.

I am not saying work, because it doesn't seem like this outcome did anyone much good, but Shamrock had a several options besides just covering up and getting hit. He didn't push off with the legs, turn over, try to get up, or anything. Did he just quit realizing he was outmatched since he missed on the leg submission attempt? Did he just freeze, which would seem odd for someone with his level of experience?

$$$$$$$$$$

Shamrock always was overated.

I think he was just stunned and kind of slow

it wasn't a work or he would have tapped out earlier to that funky submission that Franklin was trying on his arm - sort of an oma plata/armbar

Rich is young and fast.

Ken is old and slow.

Ken barely made it to his feet without getting his
head taken off after the first slip and scramble.

Rich pounced the second time, and Ken had no
answer. Too much speed, too much power. Ken was
seeing all those punches a second too late.

"it was a work. Intelligent fans will not deny that."

Why are people coming out of the woodwork claiming it was a work? It might have something to do with the fact that Rich Franklin is just a better fighter. I have tons of respect for Shamrock and he will always be one of my heroes in this sport, but I have to give Franklin his props for what he did.

Nobody should take anything away from Franklin. He seemed way to quick for Shamrock. However, this was just one of the weirder/stranger endings I have seen in the UFC.

To me, either Ken wanted the fight to be over, thinking he had no chance anyway, or he froze for some reason not knowing how to react. Even the much less experienced fighters on the reality show got out of similar and worse positions.

It is not like Franklin had him pinned against the cage or was holding him down tightly. Franklin wanted to keep the fight standing anyway it seemed. If Shamrock turned over, maybe he gets choked out/pummeled, but at least he has a chance to get up. Pushing off with his legs or using a guard would have bought time too and been some sort of defense. Going fetal in the middle of the ring with a guy that wants to keep the fight standing and isn't wrestling him down hard is just really peculiar.

I'm wondering if he didn't tear an ACL or something and was distracted by the pain, cause they were both awkward almost painful looking falls and he seemed dazed before the first punch Rich hit him with after the 2nd fall.

Having torn my ACL and having it reconstructed, I can vouch that ANYTIME you fall and tweak your leg, you definitely hesitate for a second, wondering and fearing the worst - that you may have just blown your knee again.

I don't believe this was a work - I just believe that Ken had a real bad night.

When has Ken shown the ability to do anything off his back?

There is a big difference between not being good off your back, versus doing absolutely nothing to defend yourself on your back. Perhaps he was injured or stunned at the moment, but he said nothing about it in the after fight interview.

I realize being on his back is not his strength, but he just completely stopped defending himself when he had some room to move and try and turnover, escape, or use the guard.

All he did against Tito was hold on for dear life. Franklin was standing above him, not close enough to hold.

"Ken needs to learn how close his guard, and use his legs and arms to control his opponent when he is on his back. "

  • You mean like BJJ BLACK BELTS Kenny Florian, David Terrel, Fabiano Iha (against Uno), etc? Please...

"When has Ken shown the ability to do anything off his back?"

Otsuka fight, the kimura attempt. Thats all I can think of :P

"I can accept the first fall was a sloppy manuever to set up for a leg submission," Really?? Im having a tough time figuring taht one out. Didnt seem like he was shooting for a leg to me, lol.

"I can accept the first fall was a sloppy manuever to set up for a leg submission," Really?? Im having a tough time figuring taht one out. Didnt seem like he was shooting for a leg to me, lol.

I didn't think he was going for a leg directly, but I thought he was going down to his knees to then go after a leg, being unorthodox because Franklin would otherwise hard to take down.

However, I just saw a gif file of it slowed down on another thread, and I can see what you were saying. That seems more peculiar than I originally thought.

"I can accept the first fall was a sloppy manuever to set up for a leg submission, and the second fall being due to a poor high kick attempt.

However, can anyone explain why they think Ken did nothing when he was on the ground after the second slip/fall? He hadn't taken any significant damage before that."

  • I agree with this.

People, even those like elite kickboxers including Crocop (vs. Barnett), Mo Smith (vs. Coleman) and others like Minotauro (vs. Coleman), etc, have fallen off kick attempts. No big deal, it happens.

But I also feel the fact that Ken did not attempt to square up and defend himself against Franklin's GNP was a bit strange.

The first one too was def. strange, if you watch the replay (Keegan posted a gif of it) but at least Ken went for a good ankle lock attempt.

Hmmm...I dunno what to think.

Watch it again and you will see that before he even hits the ground he gets caught with a hard shot by Franklin. Then less than a second later the barrage comes. If that's not good enough for you try to get a fight with Franklin and see how it goes for you.

shoulda switched to that toe hold! i was also wondering why he didn't try to better his position..

HE FELL FOR NOOOOOOOOOO REASON THE FIRST TIME.