Ken Shamrock

Underground
21
iwarnedyou - 

He’s a legend and one of the most important figures in early MMA. Like most early legends he lost, and fought for too long. 

 

It is what it is. He was for a time the fighter considered the best (most dangerous) in the world by many. As time went on others surpassed him and his glory faded. Like all fighters from that era he had flaws that we can all see now. 

Well said.

There was a time in the mid 90s, when Ken was realistically in the argument for best fighter on the planet.

Not many people in human history can say that.

1 Like
22

So…

Long story short…

All of Ken’s Pancrase “losses” were works.

It was a different culture at the time – MMA wasn’t even a thing yet – and Ken had to put a couple guys over.

There is maybe 1 fight with Suzuki in question – but after years of conversations with those in the know – the majority believe Ken put him over.

There is one Pancrase fight where Ken won, that was a predetermined exhibition, vs Matt Hume.

The Sunset Flip finish was a pretty obvious hint, lol.

Ken legit lost to Royce in UFC 1.

The “Dance in Detroit” ‘loss’ to Sever was BS, and should have been a NC.

There is a back story there that I won’t elaborate on unless challenged.

After Ken’s comeback:

The Fujita fight was an anomaly.

Ken was kicking the shit out of Fujita before he almost a heart attack.

There is a back story there too… but it’s not like Fujita did anything to win. Ken just wasn’t in fight shape.

The Frye fight was more of a draw than anything – and Frye himself all but said it.

Plus, Frye was on pain killers that helped him to not tap when Ken literally fractured his knees and ankles.

Not to mention Frye being saved by the bell twice.

It was an epic battle between 2 pioneers who couldn’t quite get the finish – and IMO is a badge of honor for both guys.

Then Ken fought Tito with a torn ACL.

Although he got his ass kicked, he managed to escape to his feet twice, and ended the fight on his feet.

Ken never quit, his corner threw in the towell.

Ken also buckled Tito’s knees with the only strike he landed.

This was prime Tito ar his best, vs , a Shamrock with a bad neck and a torn ACL.

It’s not about excuses.

It’s about reality.

One can make the argument that Ken Shamrock never really got his ass kicked in MMA, u til the first Tito fight.

Royce legit subbed him,but it wasnt a beat down.

So between Royce 1 and Tito 1, nobody ever kicked Ken’s ass.

Yes, a few lackluster performanceses…

But damn…

That’s a lot of fights, and a lot of damn good opponents.

Food for thought.

1 Like
23

Ken Shamrock is one of the best if all times, when he came back from the wwe he was not the same. He did weird stuff in pride like taking a dive to Fujita and Sakuraba but by then he was around 40 years old and was not the same fighter. He was the first ufc guy to have his book in national bookstores in 1996, and ultimate Ken Shamrock is a good video that explains some trials and tribulations he dealt with in the early ufc and is 100 percent accurate I’m guessing 

24
Upperfaggot - Ken Shamrock is The godfather of MMA.

During the NHB days it was about which TMA $tyle was best. Ken, in a seemingly dominant postion was subbed by Royce via gi choke at UFC 1.

In their rematch, Royce with an impressive win steak of 11-0 all by submission (10 of which despite Severn, being around 5 minutes or less), Ken effectively neutralizes the perceived unstoppable GJJ in a 35 minute test of skill.

While not as glamorous a display as we were accustomed to at the time, Ken through hard work and preparation showed an understanding that there was an answer to everything, and that it wasn’t always pure brute strength, but pure strength of technique, while doing more damage in Royce’s guard (where Royce was most dangerous).

Make no mistake about it… This was a Gracie Challenge. Ken, despite not finishing Royce was the overall Victor.

Ken is in fact the godfather of MMA.

It was a fucking rear naked choke.![](upload://w1T3PN7VErq525asb58TjDSUjXW.jpeg)

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Ken had the best body of all times.

26
onepunchJD - 

So…

Long story short…

All of Ken’s Pancrase “losses” were works.

It was a different culture at the time – MMA wasn’t even a thing yet – and Ken had to put a couple guys over.

There is maybe 1 fight with Suzuki in question – but after years of conversations with those in the know – the majority believe Ken put him over.

There is one Pancrase fight where Ken won, that was a predetermined exhibition, vs Matt Hume.

The Sunset Flip finish was a pretty obvious hint, lol.

Ken legit lost to Royce in UFC 1.

The “Dance in Detroit” ‘loss’ to Sever was BS, and should have been a NC.

There is a back story there that I won’t elaborate on unless challenged.

After Ken’s comeback:

The Fujita fight was an anomaly.

Ken was kicking the shit out of Fujita before he almost a heart attack.

There is a back story there too… but it’s not like Fujita did anything to win. Ken just wasn’t in fight shape.

The Frye fight was more of a draw than anything – and Frye himself all but said it.

Plus, Frye was on pain killers that helped him to not tap when Ken literally fractured his knees and ankles.

Not to mention Frye being saved by the bell twice.

It was an epic battle between 2 pioneers who couldn’t quite get the finish – and IMO is a badge of honor for both guys.

Then Ken fought Tito with a torn ACL.

Although he got his ass kicked, he managed to escape to his feet twice, and ended the fight on his feet.

Ken never quit, his corner threw in the towell.

Ken also buckled Tito’s knees with the only strike he landed.

This was prime Tito ar his best, vs , a Shamrock with a bad neck and a torn ACL.

It’s not about excuses.

It’s about reality.

One can make the argument that Ken Shamrock never really got his ass kicked in MMA, u til the first Tito fight.

Royce legit subbed him,but it wasnt a beat down.

So between Royce 1 and Tito 1, nobody ever kicked Ken’s ass.

Yes, a few lackluster performanceses…

But damn…

That’s a lot of fights, and a lot of damn good opponents.

Food for thought.

GREAT post!

Dont get me worng, Im on the Shammy bandwagon, just dont like the 2nd Royce fight. If Mcgregor did that kinda shit to get win all hell would break loose. And technically, had there not been overtime, which was a last minute thing, and the stand up, again which Gracies/UFC/Big John AGREED to and Royce didnt expect, (Its diff when you know it could be coming), Ken wouldnt have got that punch and better of Royce. Royce would have proved again GJJ can beat (or not get beat) even by guys like Shammy with limited rules (the Superfight had a 30-minute time limit. The Superfight overran to 31 minutes before incorporating an on-the-spot decision to extend the fight by a further five minutes). Again an unexpected stand up and on the spot overtime got Ken what he did to Royce, had neither happend, Royce and his face woulda looked just fine! People talk about Gracies, but an added thing going against the rules got Shammy the end beating on Royce!

That all said, Ken was UFC from UFC 3 thru UU96. He shared it with Royce until UFC 5 then it was him on the posters and keeping it alive!

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Also, only guys I think coulda beat Ken back then were bigger wrestlers Erickson & Kerr, and MAYBE Ruas.

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SuperFightFan - Also, only guys I think coulda beat Ken back then were bigger wrestlers Erickson & Kerr, and MAYBE Ruas.

Maybe.

Ken matched up well with big wrestlers because he was strong for his size.

Ken vs Coleman in the late 90s, is a dream fight that never happened.

Would love to see video footage of Ken and Coleman trading punches in training though!

They were sparring and apparantly Coleman went a little too hard and dropped Ken. Ken got up and KO’d Coleman, LOL.

Imagine those 2 monsters going at it.

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onepunchJD - 
SuperFightFan - Also, only guys I think coulda beat Ken back then were bigger wrestlers Erickson & Kerr, and MAYBE Ruas.

Maybe.

Ken matched up well with big wrestlers because he was strong for his size.

Ken vs Coleman in the late 90s, is a dream fight that never happened.

Would love to see video footage of Ken and Coleman trading punches in training though!

They were sparring and apparantly Coleman went a little too hard and dropped Ken. Ken got up and KO’d Coleman, LOL.

Imagine those 2 monsters going at it.

Only big wrestlers I remember Ken facing are Severn & Fujita, but Erickson & Kerr are much bigger, stronger wrestlers. I have a Full contact fighter where Ken says he wouldnt want to fight either of them, but would like to fight Kevin Randleman.

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SuperFightFan - 
onepunchJD - 
SuperFightFan - Also, only guys I think coulda beat Ken back then were bigger wrestlers Erickson & Kerr, and MAYBE Ruas.

Maybe.

Ken matched up well with big wrestlers because he was strong for his size.

Ken vs Coleman in the late 90s, is a dream fight that never happened.

Would love to see video footage of Ken and Coleman trading punches in training though!

They were sparring and apparantly Coleman went a little too hard and dropped Ken. Ken got up and KO’d Coleman, LOL.

Imagine those 2 monsters going at it.

Only big wrestlers I remember Ken facing are Severn & Fujita, but Erickson & Kerr are much bigger, stronger wrestlers. I have a Full contact fighter where Ken says he wouldnt want to fight either of them, but would like to fight Kevin Randleman.

Never heard Ken say he wouldn’t want to fight anybody.

I don’t know that Kerr would be stronger than Ken.

Erickson is a monster, but Herring beat him. Different era though.

31

You cannot go through the history of MMA without Ken Shamrock.

32
SlapUsilly - 
Upperfaggot - Ken Shamrock is The godfather of MMA.

During the NHB days it was about which TMA $tyle was best. Ken, in a seemingly dominant postion was subbed by Royce via gi choke at UFC 1.

In their rematch, Royce with an impressive win steak of 11-0 all by submission (10 of which despite Severn, being around 5 minutes or less), Ken effectively neutralizes the perceived unstoppable GJJ in a 35 minute test of skill.

While not as glamorous a display as we were accustomed to at the time, Ken through hard work and preparation showed an understanding that there was an answer to everything, and that it wasn’t always pure brute strength, but pure strength of technique, while doing more damage in Royce’s guard (where Royce was most dangerous).

Make no mistake about it… This was a Gracie Challenge. Ken, despite not finishing Royce was the overall Victor.

Ken is in fact the godfather of MMA.

It was a fucking rear naked choke.![](upload://w1T3PN7VErq525asb58TjDSUjXW.jpeg)

Hadaka Jime? Royce wasn’t using a Gable grip influencing Ken into a position. It does appear that it was more likely a pajama choke that led to a Mata Leao (Lion Killer)?

Ken learned from that fight and became the first to stifle GJJ in their rematch.

His younger adopted brother Frank, the Legend, is arguably the first true mixed martial artist due to Ken’s tutlage.

Royce, OG that he is, knowing Ken had already figured him out nearly a quarter of a century ago, intentionally kicks him in the balls in their third fight. Royce is on record admitting it was intentional. Stating something to the effect they (Him and Ken) were both NHB fighters.

33
Captain Canuck - 

You cannot go through the history of MMA without Ken Shamrock.

TRUTH

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I still wish we could have seen Ken vs Frank!  But I’m glad they made up. 

35
knockoutfighter - 

I still wish we could have seen Ken vs Frank!  But I’m glad they made up. 

There might have been a window when Ken was suffering injuries and a lifetime of wear and tear, that Frank might-- I repeat, might – have beat Ken.

Probably around the time Frank was in Strikeforce.

Prime Frank vs Prime Ken isn’t even debatable.

Prime Ken beats prime Frank, 11/10 times.

And Frank knows it.

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in his book frank said ken kicked his ass every time

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" And technically, had there not been overtime, which was a last minute thing, and the stand up, again which Gracies/UFC/Big John AGREED to and Royce didnt expect, (Its diff when you know it could be coming), Ken wouldnt have got that punch and better of Royce. Royce would have proved again GJJ can beat (or not get beat) even by guys like Shammy with limited rules (the Superfight had a 30-minute time limit. The Superfight overran to 31 minutes before incorporating an on-the-spot decision to extend the fight by a further five minutes). Again an unexpected stand up and on the spot overtime got Ken what he did to Royce, had neither happend, Royce and his face woulda looked just fine! People talk about Gracies, but an added thing going against the rules got Shammy the end beating on Roy"

The Superfight between Ken and Royce at UFC 5 was originally supposed to be for one hour. Ken said he trained for a one hour fight, and his plan was to tire Royce out and wear him down. It got changed to a 30 minute fight shortly before the event happened.

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“Royce, OG that he is, knowing Ken had already figured him out nearly a quarter of a century ago, intentionally kicks him in the balls in their third fight. Royce is on record admitting it was intentional. Stating something to the effect they (Him and Ken) were both NHB fighters.”

That fight should have been ruled a No Contest, or Royce should have been disqualified.

39
onepunchJD -
SuperFightFan - Also, only guys I think coulda beat Ken back then were bigger wrestlers Erickson & Kerr, and MAYBE Ruas.

Maybe.

Ken matched up well with big wrestlers because he was strong for his size.

Ken vs Coleman in the late 90s, is a dream fight that never happened.

Would love to see video footage of Ken and Coleman trading punches in training though!

They were sparring and apparantly Coleman went a little too hard and dropped Ken. Ken got up and KO’d Coleman, LOL.

Imagine those 2 monsters going at it.

Would have been a great fight.  I think Coleman’s the more talented fighter, but I could see Ken playing him and tiring him out and then pulling out the victory (that’s basically what Petey Williams did).

Also, there's a lot of dark clouds hanging over Shammy's career due to his relationship to pro wrestling and worked fights.  But this thread is a breath of fresh air.  It's nice to also hear the positives... and that's coming from Mr Negative himself.

Thanks OP.

40
knockoutfighter -

I still wish we could have seen Ken vs Frank!  But I’m glad they made up. 

Naw.  Not a fan of brothers fighting each other ESPECIALLY if there's some bad blood.  Neither guy comes out the winner.  Joe Lauzon vs his bro is a perfect example.  I used to idolize Joe Lauzon but I've never been able to look at the guy the same way since hearing him talk about the nonsense that went on with his brother.

1 Like