Kenka-yotsu overgrasp/undergrasp

What are the advantages/disadvantages for the undergrasp(the arm is under the opponent's arm when gripping the lapel) over the overgrasp(the arm is over the opponent's arm when gripping the lapel) when in kenka-yotsu(right vs left) gripping?

Just off the top of my head...

Overgrasp - You can break stiff-arms by pushing down and inward against uke's elbow.

Undergrasp - You can wrap uke's arm to threaten standing ude-garame. You'll rarely get it, but it can break his grip and give you a momentary advantage.

The advantages and disadvantages will also depend on your favourite throws and gripping patterns. For me, the overgrasp is best, and I'll fight to get it. If you like to go for leg picks, etc., the undergrasp might be better.

Scythrop - I like to use uchimata, ouchigari, kouchigari and kosotogake.

Depending on how you like to do those throws, the overgrasp may be better for you. It allows you to switch to the high- or back-grip much more easily for the uchimata, and to control uke's shoulders for the ouchi-gari.

But, on the other hand, I also like a double-lapel uchimata from kenka-yotsu, and for that I want the undergrasp.

Scythrop - What if I don't want to switch to high collar, over the back and around the back grip? I prefer to grip with a classical grip.

the inside grip allows you to have more lapel control in most situations. the downside to it is being overgripped and outpowered. but, you do have the best chance to fight this off if you have good movement and hand skills. throw selection is anything you want.

the outside grip is effective, BUT the moment your elbow isnt pointing down or the moment you relax it from applying pressure to uke's elbow, uke will have a free shot at any throw he wants, period. throw selection for you would be pretty much anything except morote seio and tiotoshi i'd say.

Josh has outgripped the correct and thrown it for ippon.

Our coach Ken had a whole series of drill to deal with that situation. They all involved getting to an inside grip.

I'm not going to try to describe them in words.

Ben R.

I just finish watching a Yamashita seminar video.

His english is hard to understand. He said/demonstrated that the undergrasp is good for maintaining distance while the overgrasp is good for closing the gap.