How much of a difference is there between the punching power, speed, and crispness of technique (when it comes to punching) between American Kickboxers or Muay Thai fighters and boxers? Have there ever been any American Kickboxers or Muay Thai fighters that made a successful transition to boxing and won a real world championship (not an alphabet soup title like the WBF, but one like the WBC, IBF, WBA, or even WBO)?
If there is a big difference, how long would you guys say it would take for someone who has kickboxed or done Muay Thai for say, 4 years at a professional level, to bring their hands up to the level of your typical professional boxer who has boxed for 4 years (all things such as physical attributes and training conditions being equal)?
I am a fan of both boxing and the various styles of kickboxing, and so my intent isn't to start an argument on the forum but I am toying with the idea of picking up a standup art to add to my repertoire (not necessarily for MMA competition though) and would like to know about as to what degree of difference there is in the quality of the hands of boxers and "kickboxers" (including both american style kickboxin and Muay Thai).
In my experience the main difference between Muay Thai punching and boxing is the stance and weight placement. In boxing you can really set your feet and sit down in your punches. Doing that in Muay Thai that will get you hurt.
What if you were to sit down on your punches in American style kickboxing? Would it get you killed just the same as it would if you were to do it in Muay Thai?
If by American style kickboxing you mean Full Contact Kickboxing, then sitting down in your punches is fine because you are not fighting under leg kicking rules.
So how would you rate the punching of Full Contact Kickboxer against boxers in terms of power, speed, accuracy, and sharpness/crispness?
Think of it like this. Boxers work on their punches 100% of the time. FC focuses on punching maybe 75-80% of the time. Who do you think would be better?
Vitali Klitchko was a champion kickboxer (early 90's) before moving to boxing. We see how good his boxing is.
Sandyholt is correct. Thats the main difference. MT fighters will stay more upright whe they punch, while a boxer san sink his weight to get the most power possible behind his punches.
Dont forget footwork to. You see to concerned about hand speed and power, and your not even worrying about movement. A boxer isnt a great boxer without good footwork
Most kickboxers do poorly when they contest under boxing rules - they usually fight as if they are in a kickboxing match but just hold their kicks. Without kicks kickboxers seem to find it very difficult to control the range of their opponent, and they also lack the set-ups which they usually use before a punching attack.
quit boxing now.
ttt
In muay thai, you stand more squared up which can be a serious dissadvantage in boxing. Also, boxing is a hell of a lot faster than muay thai. The speed and distance takes some adjustment. Plus, you have to learn the subtle punches and power shots. You don't need complex technique or strategies involving setups and footwork with muay thai. You usually incorperate a kick or knee instead. So you'll need a good trainer to help open your world to boxing strategy. The best thing about boxing is that you can walk just fine after the fight wether you got your ass handed to you or not. Legs are safe!
In muay thai, you stand more squared up which can be a serious dissadvantage in boxing.
True, the Muay Thai stance is typically at less of an angle as Boxing, but it is important to stress that Thai Boxers *do* stand at an angle to minimize exposing the body to attack.
Also, boxing is a hell of a lot faster than muay thai. The speed and distance takes some adjustment.
??? Boxing is no faster than Muay Thai. Just because boxers train on hand techniques to exclusion of everything else doesn't make them faster. It just makes them better boxers.
Plus, you have to learn the subtle punches and power shots. You don't need complex technique or strategies involving setups and footwork with muay thai.
What? Have you even trained in Muay Thai? Muay Thai uses subtlety as well as power. There are complex techniques and strategies using footwork. Its different than Boxing, but its there. If you have not trained in Muay Thai, you may not recognize the techniques as they are being performed, but that doesn't mean they are not there. That would be the same as someone believing that all Boxing is just two guys standing in the middle of the ring and beating the shit out of one another. We all know that this is bunk.
You usually incorperate a kick or knee instead. So you'll need a good trainer to help open your world to boxing strategy. The best thing about boxing is that you can walk just fine after the fight wether you got your ass handed to you or not. Legs are safe!
Absolutely! Most of the Boxing technique used in Muay Thai IS rudimentary, so if you really want to have superior hands (a DEFINATE advantage in the Muay Thai ring) you should find a good boxing coach apart from just Muay Thai!
On the other hand, sure, your legs are gonna be fine, but your apt to take many more head shots as Boxing has fewer targets. Would you rather eat a devastating leg kick or a crushing left hook to the jaw? Pick your poison.....
Khun... have you ever fought... not trained, or sparred, I mean fought as in ding ding in the ring both muay thai and american boxing? I know it sounds weird, but boxing is faster than muay thai. I would have to guess that its easyer to control the pace in a thai style fight more so than in boxing. Thats my only explanation. Yeah, I've trained and fought pro in both muay thai and boxing.
of course there are complex and subtle techniques with footwork in muay thai, but they incorperate knees, and kicks. I was saying that muay thai's grasp on hand setups and subtlties etc are lacking because of this.
in thailand they dont work on bobing and waving as its nearly impossible to shin block while doing them.
"I was saying that muay thai's grasp on hand setups and subtlties etc are lacking because of this. "
Ruthless is correct, but you have to admit that its because there are more weapons, like kicks and knees that boxing doesnt have the same grasp on hand techniques that boxing does. When you have two weapons to work, you better believe that you gonna be better at that one weapon than someone who has six more. But that person with six more is gonna have more options than you, so if makes up for the lack of hand options.
I don't know if KK has done any boxing matches, but he's done "OK" in kickboxing... I'm sure someone else will fill you in better than I can.
I have fought amateur in both venues, and quite frankly, There's more action in my Muay Thai matches than the boxing ones. There is a lot more MOVEMENT in boxing, but as far as damage done and strikes thrown, there was a lot more in Muay Thai. In Muay Thai, all of the movement is involved in striking, or well within striking range, so it's more tight, boxing footwork doesn't have to deal with kicks or knees, so the footwork is more loose and longer,
As said above a lot of that depends on the fighters involved. I preferred to fight in close with my Thai and clinch while throwing a lot of knees and elbows. Out at distance I stick to jabs, crosses, and kicks.
In boxing, since I'm tall for my weight (6'2" 170lbs) I like to use my reach and stay outside, as in close, a lot of my weapons go away in boxing. My three boxing matches were fought against "runners" too. They kept away and tried to come in and out, while in my thai matches, I stayed in close to people and pushed the action.
In general, though, what I see from matches is more long range movement/footwork in boxing as well as more body movement, and more striking in muay thai. Both myself and my opponents certainly had more damage in my Thai matches than my boxing matches/opponents. Although I was a little more tired in my boxing matches from trying to move so much.
Ruthless....
Yeah, I've fought. Numerous times. But it has been Muay Thai only. I started learning straight boxing within a year after taking up Muay Thai, and I have kept up training in both.
I think I understand what you're saying. When speaking of JUST HANDS, I can understand why you would say straight boxing is faster. The way I read your original post, it sounded as if you were saying that boxing is OVERALL faster than Muay Thai, which I simply do not agree with. I'm still not 100% sure I agree with your statement, but seeing as I have only actually fought in one venue, I'm going to have to take your word on it.
"I was saying that muay thai's grasp on hand setups and subtlties etc are lacking because of this. "
Now this I do totally agree with. Again, I misunderstood your intent thinking the original statement was applying to Muay Thai as a whole, not just hands. But then, this is EXACTLY why I train in straight boxing, not just Muay Thai. This is also why I drill my own students in a lot of "hands only" techniques. I can't hold a candle to my boxing coach, but at least I understand and can communicate many of the principles of boxing so that my students end the day with their eyes opened to new possibilities.....
peace
Khun Kao,
I always enjoy your posts.