Think of all the normal everyday moves you encounter in your classes that are more dangerous than the dreaded "knee on face".
I'll just list 8:
1)A guy not knowing how to apply a knee bar and really torques your knee---"legit" move yet inherently more dangerous
2)Same for the heelhook.
3)A wrestler who is new to BJJ and doesn't really understand the mentality about low key stuff..he is just doing his thing..trying to crush you positionally
4)A good judo guy just getting his grips and being "rough"...feels normal to him, to the novice or intermediate it may feel like he is "bullying" you by whipping you around
5)Someone continuosly going for throat chokes on you when they are a dominant competitor....so that you cannot swallow for 3 days without bad pain....but the technique is "legit"
6)Someone manipulating your head and neck every chance they get..."legit" technique yet you know that it causes your neck and back to hurt like hell for a week
7)Someone not knowing how to correctly apply a neck crank and keeps trying to twist your head off..."legit" technique so it has to be better than the dreaded "knee to the face"
8)Knee on shin to pass the guard.."legit" technique but after a couple of hard knees to the shin you know that you will have that blood clot knot and immense pain on your shin for weeks.
you described all legit moves that are unintentionally dangerous... what fucking moron puts his knee on someone's face and is clueless at what that might do?
I'm all for realistic training and going all out, especially against guys in class that understand this iw where we are going... but you had to seriously ride the short bus to class if you don't understand the simple notion of training hard versus putting your partner at risk...
accidents happen and there are always injuries, but tell me if you were rolling at a seminar with renzo, would you use knee on the face? you wouldn't...
sawdusk...."but you had to seriously ride the short bus to class if you don't understand the simple notion of training hard versus putting your partner at risk..."
That statement is what I am talking about. I would rather have someone put a knee on my face rather than perform a terrible kneebar, heelhook, neck crank etc....
And as for understanding about training hard versus putting your partner at risk...ask anyone I have trained with and they know I am very considerate. It hs nothing to do with ego or macho behavior, it has everything to do with looking at this whole knee on face thing from a big picture standpoint.
brett... definitely wasn't referrign to you... and you are correct, I'd rather have a knee in my face than a cranked ligament... in the big picture, yes, it's the less of many worse evils out there...
I'm just pointing out i can't imagine somenoe who would use it and not know they are being cheap, potentially dangerous and feel it has it's place in common sparring... an over cranked heel hook would 99% of the time be unintentional, whereas a knee on the face is a conscious move...
any ways... more halle barry... that was unreal...
No problem saw...my initial post came across as macho and what I was trying to do was to establish the inherent dangers in everday moves vs. the knee on face....the Halle Barry thing :)
"cheap? you realize that some people still think leglocks are cheap right? bjj is supposed to be about keeping what works and throwing out what doesnt"
There is also a big difference between moving from knee to belly to knee to face, with all your weight resting on the guys noggin, and pushing with your knee like a crossface. The first has a big potential for injury, the second will only hurt you as much as you choose to resist.
Also, if you are going to hang onto a low percentage move like a reverse triangle, which in my experience rarely submits a guy quickly, then you should learn the valuable lesson that if you are going to just hang onto a submission until it works, you had better be in a totally dominant position. Otherwise, be prepared to get escaped or hurt.
I would roll with Brett and he could put his knee on my face and I wouldn't say shit.
Just look out for my inter-gallactic toe hold.
BTW - Every time somebody I train with taps to a leglock or heel hook of any kind, it is considered good form to say to the person who made you tap, "They boo that shit in Brazil!".
Jeez, if I didn't know better, I'd swear this was a fucking nursery with all the crying that is going on in here!
Whether you are wrestling, doing BJJ or whatever martial art it is that you do; it's a CONTACT SPORT!! If you are gonna whine and complain about getting roughed up in training, you need to find another sport to practice. Would you rather get roughed up in training or get roughed up on the street or in a competition?
"I do the same thing.. someone pulls some bullshit with a knee on my face and im going to torque their foot and teach them why that is a lame ass technique"
You misunderstood me....I have no problem with the knee on the face....the inter-galactic toe hold was just a joke.