I had no idea this even existed till a few months ago. This is a great video and I have even more admiration for Judo.
There's no such thing as "Kosen Judo" as a distinct style. It's just judo but with a different competition ruleset.
So Helio didn't invent this?
Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Of course not but they did push it into the mainstream by challenging everybody in vale tudo and then bringing it to the US and creating the UFC. I know it’s cool to make fun of the Gracies for “inventing BJJ” but they were still a huge factor in the formation of modern MMA.
NicolasRGC -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Of course not but they did push it into the mainstream by challenging everybody in vale tudo and then bringing it to the US and creating the UFC. I know it’s cool to make fun of the Gracies for “inventing BJJ” but they were still a huge factor in the formation of modern MMA.
Of course. I think the main "beef" many people have with the Helio side is the hyperbole that they basically invented everything, starting basically from leverage lol, when japanese guys were doing buttefly sweeps decades before.
mkou -NicolasRGC -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Of course not but they did push it into the mainstream by challenging everybody in vale tudo and then bringing it to the US and creating the UFC. I know it’s cool to make fun of the Gracies for “inventing BJJ” but they were still a huge factor in the formation of modern MMA.
Of course. I think the main "beef" many people have with the Helio side is the hyperbole that they basically invented everything, starting basically from leverage lol, when japanese guys were doing buttefly sweeps decades before.
And the shameless promotion machine (Gracie university, Gracie diet etc), I can see how it rubs some people the wrong way
Kosen judo has little to do with self-defense. There is the difference.
Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Mitsuyo Maeda invented it
The Gracies sold it
mkou -There's no such thing as "Kosen Judo" as a distinct style. It's just judo but with a different competition ruleset.
Like Muay Thai and K1 are just kickboxing???
darkiemontana -mkou -There's no such thing as "Kosen Judo" as a distinct style. It's just judo but with a different competition ruleset.
Like Muay Thai and K1 are just kickboxing???
Isn't K1 just a ruleset in which many different striking arts compete? Yeah, that is similar to Kosen Judo, just a ruleset, albeit Kosen is closely tied to Judo itself.
Kickboxing and Muay Thai are two different styles, like Judo and Sambo for example. Sambo is based on judo mostly and kickboxing probably on boxing and sport karate? Correct me if I'm wrong
mkou -darkiemontana -mkou -There's no such thing as "Kosen Judo" as a distinct style. It's just judo but with a different competition ruleset.
Like Muay Thai and K1 are just kickboxing???
Isn't K1 just a ruleset in which many different striking arts compete? Yeah, that is similar to Kosen Judo, just a ruleset, albeit Kosen is closely tied to Judo itself.
Kickboxing and Muay Thai are two different styles, like Judo and Sambo for example. Sambo is based on judo mostly and kickboxing probably on boxing and sport karate? Correct me if I'm wrong
Either way, rules at are the core of how one acts and reacts in a particular activity. Kosen Judo having different rules certainly could influence behavior enough to create a specific style and it appears that it does
cuttooth -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Mitsuyo Maeda invented it
The Gracies sold it
Maeda of course studied under Kano and his first generation coaches at the Kodokan.
FOX Force Five -cuttooth -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Mitsuyo Maeda invented it
The Gracies sold it
Maeda of course studied under Kano and his first generation coaches at the Kodokan.
Which leads to believe that that form of Judo was more complete and practical....
3 hour training is intense
voodoo child -FOX Force Five -cuttooth -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Mitsuyo Maeda invented it
The Gracies sold it
Maeda of course studied under Kano and his first generation coaches at the Kodokan.
Which leads to believe that that form of Judo was more complete and practical....
Yes, original Kodokan Judo, pre olympics and pre multiple rule changes.
Funnily enough I think Kano wasn't a massive fan of Kosen Judo, he felt that it was too much of a sport style Judo and lacked for self defence. God knows what he'd make of the current IJF brand.
FOX Force Five -voodoo child -FOX Force Five -cuttooth -Positive Energy -So Helio didn't invent this?
Mitsuyo Maeda invented it
The Gracies sold it
Maeda of course studied under Kano and his first generation coaches at the Kodokan.
Which leads to believe that that form of Judo was more complete and practical....
Yes, original Kodokan Judo, pre olympics and pre multiple rule changes.
Funnily enough I think Kano wasn't a massive fan of Kosen Judo, he felt that it was too much of a sport style Judo and lacked for self defence. God knows what he'd make of the current IJF brand.
The story I always got was that Kano pushed for Judo to be more sport and less lethal. That’s the narrative that’s been pushed for quite some time in the circles I ran.
That's strange. I've read the opposite!
I'm pretty sure there's a quote where he says he wasn't concerned if Judo became a Olympic sport or not because he considered it a martial art first and that was his primary objective.
As far as less lethal, he did discard stuff from Japan JJ because he wanted something that could be practiced full force without crippling or killing the opponent. He had seen Jap JJ tournaments where people were routinely crippled or later died from their injuries.
"Kosen Judo"
FOX Force Five -That's strange. I've read the opposite!
I'm pretty sure there's a quote where he says he wasn't concerned if Judo became a Olympic sport or not because he considered it a martial art first and that was his primary objective.
As far as less lethal, he did discard stuff from Japan JJ because he wanted something that could be practiced full force without crippling or killing the opponent. He had seen Jap JJ tournaments where people were routinely crippled or later died from their injuries.
And he valued the importance of live practice, knowing one could fight better if they trained as they would fight.
Choked72 -FOX Force Five -That's strange. I've read the opposite!
I'm pretty sure there's a quote where he says he wasn't concerned if Judo became a Olympic sport or not because he considered it a martial art first and that was his primary objective.
As far as less lethal, he did discard stuff from Japan JJ because he wanted something that could be practiced full force without crippling or killing the opponent. He had seen Jap JJ tournaments where people were routinely crippled or later died from their injuries.
And he valued the importance of live practice, knowing one could fight better if they trained as they would fight.
Didn’t his judo school wipe the mats with all the other JJ schools that still had too-dangerous-to-practice techniques in their curriculum and that’s how judo started to grow and become the dominant martial art in japan?