I have just confirmed this with 100% certainty. The ball is in his court. I purchased 7 or 8 posters from him on Ebay a couple weeks ago and they came a few days ago. EVERY one of them was fake. As this situation unfolds I will keep everybody posted and eventually I will post pics on this thread showing how to ID these fakes (these are really shitty fakes that are easily id'd). I called him on it, he refunded my $ right away and pretty much wanted to know "how" I could tell they were fake... He also told me when I asked (before I bid) that he purchased the posters from Pride in LA. So, not only is he selling fakes he is lying about where he obtained them. I asked him for proof that he bought them from Pride... receipts contacts etc... so we will see what happens. He refunded my $ immediately and didnt question me, he aslo told me to keep the posters...??? THe reason I bought them in the first place was so I could verify for sure of he was selling Real or Fake posters. It would have cost me roughly $90 to make this purchase, but my money was refunded, so everybody here benefits from this information and it dint cost me a dime, this I like!
I approached two of the most respected people on this Mem forum over 6 months ago and tried to convince them that we (all collectors) should start some sort of "tracking" or serial numbering scheme to authenticate posters that are valued over $100. At the time, one didn't have the time or care to deal with this, and the other didn't see the need... Fast-forward 5 months... One buyer of a very valuable poster asked the seller to sign his name on the back of the poster he was purchasing. All of a sudden my original idea was proved valid by somebody that was from the "outside" of this core collecting circle. So, after some discussions and depending on what everybody here says... I want to suggest that all of us start keeping better records as to who when and where we buy important items from. If anybody like the idea of signing the back of posters as the poster changes hands, please support this idea on this thread with any supporting or non-supporting comments. So, say for example Collector "A" sells a poster that is valued over $100... under this new "plan" it would be collector "A"'s responsibility to authenticate the poster or source and then "sign off" on it with his name. OK, now this poster belongs to me... and i should feel safe that it is authentic because collector "A" signed it. It is now up to me to either trust Collector "A"'s signature, or do my own research and validate it further. I know some of you are rolling your eyes right now thinking this is a hassle and blah blah blah... but the market for MMA Memorabilia has started to explode and unless "we", the collectors, take the initiative here, the market will not grow as it should. If people are always worried about buying fakes, it will make it hard for legitimate sellers and collector to keep doing what they know and enjoy. (violins playing in backround)...
If you want to post on this thread PLEASE only post your opinions or thoughts on THESE subjects, kult_kloemel and how to deal with the "authentic/real" vs "fake/repro" issue. DO NOT post any names PLEASE besides this aforementioned person on this thread. If you want to start your OWN thread to discuss other people or situations that is fine but lets try to stick to topic on this one...
The way I see it an item should be judged REAL or FAKE, not the person selling or owning it. EVERYBODY makes mistakes but if you have a FAKE, DO NOT RE-SELL IT!!! That is YOUR duty as a true collector. Anybody that thinks they are "holding" a fake can ask myself, Cam, or Yuma to validate what they are thinking. If you want to send stuff to us for "Authentication", I am open to this, I have not discussed this with them, but I will volunteer to do this, if you would rather ask them, please do. I would think that they would also be willing to help in this situation.
As some of you already know, I have been working on developing an MMA Museum and a few other people have also been involved. If they want to make themselves known, that is up to them. I CAN tell you that I have the backround qualifications to make judgements regarding printed items being authentic and "real" or not. There will be some "press" soon regarding the Museum and I thought I would break the "news" here first in case you were unaware of this situation. I will start a "Museum" thread soon to discuss this further......FP
In the belt world this commonly occurs. People make bootlegs. How we circumnavigate it is usually by posting comparison pictures that show differences. Also since belts are hand made, there are certain things that cannot be reproduced such as the beltmakers signature stamp and other tidbits only they or a diehard would know.
Even on the sports jerseys boards I post at, they do the same thing in order to how to tell the $25 sweat shop specials on eBay from authentic licensed jerseys.
Maybe some kind of website detailing the majority of the differences between fakes/reals would help, but you might have to be careful not to give too much information that helps the bootleggers make a more accurate knockoff.
Also, this eBay seller is in Germany which seems an odd place for all those PRIDE posters to end up.
It's in the works PT, it's in the works. ALL very good points. Most of the "validating" info regarding the MMA Memorabila "industry" I have gathered from my own MMA collecting/collection and contacts and my past experience with other high-end collectible/antiques in other classes of goods and services... as you know pictures are the best method. I plan on showing close-up pics and also measurements etc... and other ways to spot fakes. The one thing that will not be told would be how to "improve" the process of "faking". It is what it is, they will always try to fake, we will just have to be on top of our game and out in front with the knowledge....FP
great idea...but instead of signing the back...better to keep records with pics...when/where/who items/sigs were obtained...and then attach the info to the item...when i eventually frame and hang my stuff, a copy of those records will be attached to the back of the frame
as the sport grows and the collectibles become more valuable, the quality of fakes will improve...records with lineage is key
in regard to IDing fakes...they can be hard to spot fro the ave joe...but once you compare the fake to the real deal it's obvious
I like the idea, especially doing it with pics the way sandman and bjjdna suggested. I wouldn't be against signing or marking the back, provided it's done in a way that won't damage the piece.
I'm always leery of buying big ticket items from people I don't know or have never dealt with before, probably the reason why I haven't been burned by this that many times. Having a documented lineage would be a tremendous asset
"in regard to IDing fakes...they can be hard to spot fro the ave joe...but once you compare the fake to the real deal it's obvious"
most people dont have originals to compare to.
Great idea. I have purchased a couple 100+ dollar poster recently and have started keeping a log of where, when and how much I paid. I really like the fact that there are some people on here who I can contact and have confirm whether a poster is legit or not. Thank you for doing that for me. You know who you are.
(Name=Max)
(Email=roy@businessnet.de)
(Ebay Name)=(Vitor-Belfort) from Germany also sells fakes...
Great that we have this board...Thanks for the headsup!!
Great idea about a tracking system!
Kult got me on some posters and Vitor Belfort is his other account, who knows if he has any others.
I JUST got an email from him, he says he will stop selling the posters on Ebay. problem solved....Let's see if he does....FP
hi brett,
you are the specialist!
so i stop selling these posters on ebay!
to much stress with these posters!
it was in the big warehouse in torrance!
about three years ago!
no receipts because to get a better price for bigger amounts!
i had big tubes! they had them plain in brown paper always around 200 or 300 in one
package! thats it!
sorry for the trouble!
you have your money!
everybody is lucky!
sorry for my bad english!
all the best,
max
that's why i buy from a few guys on here.
He still selling some fakes under his Belfort name.He has a UFC 79 poster and I know the Tyson ones are fakes too.
The 79 would be very expensive to reproduce just because of the size... so you guys are on your own there... and I could give a shit less about boxing items... just MMA....
"If anybody like the idea of signing the back of posters as the poster changes hands, please support this idea on this thread with any supporting or non-supporting comments"
If this is what a buyer wants it sounds good to me. I think it's better to mark the actual poster, but I would be open to providing a certificate of authenticity as well.
"Anybody that thinks they are "holding" a fake can ask myself, Cam, or Yuma to validate what they are thinking."
I would be more then willing to help out in any way I can, and I can answer most questions that might come up. However, although I appreciate the endorsement, when it comes to the finer details of printing/paper/process I would have to defer to Yuma or FP.
"...but you might have to be careful not to give too much information that helps the bootleggers make a more accurate knockoff."
Without going into detail, this is an excellent point.
I ended up with one of his bootleg Grand Prix 2000 posters. I have a real one, and the difference is pretty much night and day. You still planning on posting comparisons? I could do a little write up if you like.
Go for it PT, i'm waiting on a few comparison posters myself as we speak...
ttt
BEWARE I just bought 5 of the UFC 112 "Abu Dhabi" version posters AND THEY ARE FAKES!!! 100% guaranteed. Size is off, pixellation of type, .... and the final nail... look at the foreheads on the shaded side especially Renzo's... see the banding... high-end drum-scanner. This dude needs to be stopped. I have already called him out a couple years ago... lets get some help here peeps! He charged me almost $50 to ship as well...
He is still selling the fake PRIDE posters now.