"LATE" Stoppages...

There is a lot of crying about the "late" stoppages from Strikeforces' card last night.

From the fans
From Pat Militech
From King Mo

The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight. You have Boxing where guys are absorbing INSANE amounts of cumulative punishment on a regular basis. It is in the neighborhood of 1000 times what MMA fighters take. So if you're cool with NFL players getting hit each week and Boxers sparring hard and routinely going 10 rounds in their fights, then you need to relax about 2-3 extra shots to a fighter who is on his way out.

Everyone goes crazy because of how awesome Kongo's KO of Pat Barry was but if the stoppages Pat Militech is in favor of and all of you are crying for, where routinely enforced than that KO would not have happened. Period. The fight would have been called and Kongo would have been upset (and a good chunk of you people would be too) that he didn't get an opportunity to come back even though he was moving.

This is a DANGEROUS sport. Uninformed concern about what damages people and what doesn't damage people is not going to help.

I can tell you this: guys cutting 20-30lbs. 24-48 hours before they get their heads punched repeatedly is WAY more dangerous than late shots. A mildly dehydrated brain bouncing around in your skull is what can REALLY damage fighters. So if you agree with Pat or Mo then please call for the ban of cutting weight first!

ttt

"The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight"

This is a ridiculous statement. Out cold with your head flat on the mat with a Lesnar type fighter dropping hammer fists WILL cause more damage than the normal course of the fight up to that point with the possibility of permanent damage or death

The problem is it's bad for the sport. Any jerk off with no exposure to MMA will see that and tell all his jerk off friends about how dangerous it is and they won't watch again. Worse yet, suppose that same jerk off is a parent who tells his kid to never watch MMA again.

Also, you don't want some gorilla pounding on your face as your head is planted firmly on the canvas. Broken jaw, fractured eye socket, etc. Phone Post

Haulport - There is a lot of crying about the "late" stoppages from Strikeforces' card last night.

From the fans
From Pat Militech
From King Mo

The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight. You have Boxing where guys are absorbing INSANE amounts of cumulative punishment on a regular basis. It is in the neighborhood of 1000 times what MMA fighters take. So if you're cool with NFL players getting hit each week and Boxers sparring hard and routinely going 10 rounds in their fights, then you need to relax about 2-3 extra shots to a fighter who is on his way out.

Everyone goes crazy because of how awesome Kongo's KO of Pat Barry was but if the stoppages Pat Militech is in favor of and all of you are crying for, where routinely enforced than that KO would not have happened. Period. The fight would have been called and Kongo would have been upset (and a good chunk of you people would be too) that he didn't get an opportunity to come back even though he was moving.

This is a DANGEROUS sport. Uninformed concern about what damages people and what doesn't damage people is not going to help.

I can tell you this: guys cutting 20-30lbs. 24-48 hours before they get their heads punched repeatedly is WAY more dangerous than late shots. A mildly dehydrated brain bouncing around in your skull is what can REALLY damage fighters. So if you agree with Pat or Mo then please call for the ban of cutting weight first!

I stopped reading when you said that the blows that are considered late won't damage a person any more than normal blows to the head.


The reality is they are more damaging. I have extensive experience with head injuries as I live with severe brain injuries for tfe past 7 years. I think you need to go read up on blows to the headboard an injured brain before making false statements like that. Phone Post

Farewell BJ - I stopped reading when you said that the blows that are considered late won't damage a person any more than normal blows to the head. <br><br><br>The reality is they are more damaging. I have extensive experience with head injuries as I live with severe brain injuries for tfe past 7 years. I think you need to go read up on blows to the headboard an injured brain before making false statements like that. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Blows to the headboard are a whole different arena...

I dont think you understand the damage punching an unconscious person can do, A lot of combat sport deaths(and streetfighting) come from people taking too much damage in situations just like that where they cannot defend themselves.

No one was unconscious when they were taking these blows. Jardine was moving around and so was Larkin. If your only way to argue is to mis-state what I said then please try again.

I love how none of you even touch the fact that the dehydration of weight-cutting is FAR more dangerous than the blows Jardine and Larkin took and how a normal Boxing match is 100 times more dangerous than taking a few extra shots to the head.

A study suggested that a single game for an NFL running back is equivalent to being in 20+ "fender-bender" type accidents. And that is one game.

Meanwhile, you all have no problems with that yet act like an early stoppage is saving fighters' lives and it's all about their safety.

It is completely inaccurate and disingenuous...

Farewell BJ - 
Haulport - There is a lot of crying about the "late" stoppages from Strikeforces' card last night.

From the fans
From Pat Militech
From King Mo

The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight. You have Boxing where guys are absorbing INSANE amounts of cumulative punishment on a regular basis. It is in the neighborhood of 1000 times what MMA fighters take. So if you're cool with NFL players getting hit each week and Boxers sparring hard and routinely going 10 rounds in their fights, then you need to relax about 2-3 extra shots to a fighter who is on his way out.

Everyone goes crazy because of how awesome Kongo's KO of Pat Barry was but if the stoppages Pat Militech is in favor of and all of you are crying for, where routinely enforced than that KO would not have happened. Period. The fight would have been called and Kongo would have been upset (and a good chunk of you people would be too) that he didn't get an opportunity to come back even though he was moving.

This is a DANGEROUS sport. Uninformed concern about what damages people and what doesn't damage people is not going to help.

I can tell you this: guys cutting 20-30lbs. 24-48 hours before they get their heads punched repeatedly is WAY more dangerous than late shots. A mildly dehydrated brain bouncing around in your skull is what can REALLY damage fighters. So if you agree with Pat or Mo then please call for the ban of cutting weight first!
I stopped reading when you said that the blows that are considered late won't damage a person any more than normal blows to the head. <br><br><br>The reality is they are more damaging. I have extensive experience with head injuries as I live with severe brain injuries for tfe past 7 years. I think you need to go read up on blows to the headboard an injured brain before making false statements like that. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>
I'm sorry to hear about your injures but reality is reality. We are not talking about Oleg Taktarov being complete prone and taking HUGE Gary Goodridge shots to the head. We are discussing active, moving fighters taking a few extra shots to give them the opportunity to recover a la Kongo.

Those kind of blows are absolutely no worse than what a boxing routinely goes thru in his career. So if you are against these "late stoppages" than you should call for the ban of boxing and weighting cutting and a host of other issues also. Are any of you ready to do that?

Dawggy - The problem is it's bad for the sport. Any jerk off with no exposure to MMA will see that and tell all his jerk off friends about how dangerous it is and they won't watch again. Worse yet, suppose that same jerk off is a parent who tells his kid to never watch MMA again.
Bad for the sport? That's not an argument, that's a subjective opinion of yours. I could just as easily say that early stoppages are just as bad for the sport because they are very unsatisfying and will drive away fans who feel things might be "fixed" or just lame.
Dawggy - Also, you don't want some gorilla pounding on your face as your head is planted firmly on the canvas. Broken jaw, fractured eye socket, etc.
When he is on his back and particularly when his head is pushed up against the fence, a fighter is pinned as you describe regardless of his level of consciousness. This already happens on a regular basis...

JPet - 

This is a ridiculous statement. Out cold with your head flat on the mat with a Lesnar type fighter dropping hammer fists WILL cause more damage than the normal course of the fight up to that point with the possibility of permanent damage or death


 "Out cold with your head flat on the mat" doesn't describe any of the "late" stoppages from Strikeforce.

orcus - 
JPet - 
This is a ridiculous statement. Out cold with your head flat on the mat with a Lesnar type fighter dropping hammer fists WILL cause more damage than the normal course of the fight up to that point with the possibility of permanent damage or death

 "Out cold with your head flat on the mat" doesn't describe any of the "late" stoppages from Strikeforce.
Thanks you sir. We actually have a little bit of common ground here? Shocking..........

It comes down to intelligently defending yourself. Larkin wasn't out, but seriously, 17 unanswered punches to the face while he's on his back is way too many.

Kongo was moving around trying to escape getting hit, Larkin was pretty much holding his hands up blocking punches with his face. Jardine stoppage was fine IMO, it's a title fight and Jardine is known to take ridiculous punishment. There was no need for Larkin to take so many unanswered punches to the head just because he isn't "out".

Some people don't get knocked out as easy as others. Doesn't mean they should take 20 more punches without defending themselves.

BTW: I think Keith should retire.

Larkin ate at LEAST 5 extra shots after the fight should have been stopped. He went limp briefly after about 8 solid punches from Mo and all the subsequent punches after that knocked him in and out of consciousness repeatedly. He was NOT intelligently defending himself, and if you think he could have made any kind of Kongo-like comeback when his eyes rolled in the back of his head and his arms stiffened after eating dozens of punches, then you are horribly mistaken.

The Jardine fight should have been stopped after the second KD where Keith did some sort of 80's breakdance move and folded like a lawnchair. Refs have to take into account the punishment a fighter has taken before during the course of the fight. He got dropped twice and was sitting up eating punches from Luke when he stood up and got demolished. Fight over. There was no need for him to eat 5 more shots, regardless of whether he was still technically "awake" or not. He wasn't intelligently defending himself, like Larkin he was blocking punches with his face. The ref's job is to save a fighter when he can't intelligently defend himself and Herb and Kim were far too late on their stoppages.

You have to realize that these extra punches do unnecessary damage to a fighter and all it takes is one good shot to a prone opponent whose head is on the floor that could potentially kill him. It's never happened but it's obviously a possibility, and all it takes is one death on live TV to set MMA back like it's the 90's again.

Haulport -
Dawggy - The problem is it's bad for the sport. Any jerk off with no exposure to MMA will see that and tell all his jerk off friends about how dangerous it is and they won't watch again. Worse yet, suppose that same jerk off is a parent who tells his kid to never watch MMA again.
Bad for the sport? That's not an argument, that's a subjective opinion of yours. I could just as easily say that early stoppages are just as bad for the sport because they are very unsatisfying and will drive away fans who feel things might be "fixed" or just lame.
Dawggy - Also, you don't want some gorilla pounding on your face as your head is planted firmly on the canvas. Broken jaw, fractured eye socket, etc.
When he is on his back and particularly when his head is pushed up against the fence, a fighter is pinned as you describe regardless of his level of consciousness. This already happens on a regular basis...

That can be said about anything. It's your opinion that late stoppages aren't bad for the sport. In other contact sports, such as football, late hits are punished severely because the ref isn't tasked with jumping in and stopping the action. MMA needs to be extra cautious, especially now days since the fox deal will expose many new fans to the sport. Anything less than competent reffing is a big problem.

Difference is, when a fighter is awake, he has a better chance of deflecting blows to his face. The instant a fighter ceases to protect himself, the force of the blows incurred multiply. Phone Post

No one was unconscious when they were taking these blows.


Larkin was KO'd before the last 4 shots.

And the problem is inconsistency in Winslow's case, which is a larger issue.

Don't limit this discussion to Strikeforce on Jan 7, 2012.

Haulport stated "the reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight"

This statement is INACCURATE as described by many above and is NOT an opinion.

AC Slater - Larkin ate at LEAST 5 extra shots after the fight should have been stopped. He went limp briefly after about 8 solid punches from Mo and all the subsequent punches after that knocked him in and out of consciousness repeatedly. He was NOT intelligently defending himself, and if you think he could have made any kind of Kongo-like comeback when his eyes rolled in the back of his head and his arms stiffened after eating dozens of punches, then you are horribly mistaken.

The Jardine fight should have been stopped after the second KD where Keith did some sort of 80's breakdance move and folded like a lawnchair. Refs have to take into account the punishment a fighter has taken before during the course of the fight. He got dropped twice and was sitting up eating punches from Luke when he stood up and got demolished. Fight over. There was no need for him to eat 5 more shots, regardless of whether he was still technically "awake" or not. He wasn't intelligently defending himself, like Larkin he was blocking punches with his face. The ref's job is to save a fighter when he can't intelligently defend himself and Herb and Kim were far too late on their stoppages.

You have to realize that these extra punches do unnecessary damage to a fighter and all it takes is one good shot to a prone opponent whose head is on the floor that could potentially kill him. It's never happened but it's obviously a possibility, and all it takes is one death on live TV to set MMA back like it's the 90's again.
I reject your TV death since boxers routinely die each year and I've watched it live on HBO.

While Keith has a recent history of getting KO'd (which is why he needs to retire) he was moving even if it was a lot of falling. Kongo was doing the exact same thing. Do you believe that fight should have been stopped?

JPet - Don't limit this discussion to Strikeforce on Jan 7, 2012.

Haulport stated "the reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight"

This statement is INACCURATE as described by many above and is NOT an opinion.
So are you calling for the banning of Boxing (especially with the INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS 10 count) and weight cutting? I don't believe I saw you on my thread calling the banning of the issue of heading spiking:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=1&thread=1617361&page=1