"LATE" Stoppages...

Dogman - 
JPet - "The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight"

This is a ridiculous statement. Out cold with your head flat on the mat with a Lesnar type fighter dropping hammer fists WILL cause more damage than the normal course of the fight up to that point with the possibility of permanent damage or death


Lol at some of the stuff Haulport spews
Yes it is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY to believe that people should have some concept of logic when creating rules for a sport.

- Boxing = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Extreme weight-cutting = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Taking a blind hit in the NFL to your head or spine = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Piledriving your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving

YET let's stop MMA fights EARLY while not banning any of the above stated techniques or sports. That makes PERFECT sense. And if you think what I just stated in THIS particular post is silly or ridiculous please explain why...

Haulport - Yes it is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY to believe that people should have some concept of logic when creating rules for a sport.

- Boxing = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Extreme weight-cutting = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Taking a blind hit in the NFL to your head or spine = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Piledriving your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving

YET let's stop MMA fights EARLY while not banning any of the above stated techniques or sports. That makes PERFECT sense. And if you think what I just stated in THIS particular post is silly or ridiculous please explain why...
still waiting for someone to tell me this post of mine wrong/silly/ridiculous........

"still waiting for someone to tell me this post of mine wrong/silly/ridiculous........"

Haulport - THIS post is wrong/silly/ridiculous BECAUSE "PILEDRIVING your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA" is a FOUL in MMA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FOULS:

MMA Unified Rules ( NJ )

25. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck.

MMA Unified Rules ( ABC ) drafted by Big John McCarthy

27.. Spiking the opponent to the canvas onto the head or neck (pile-driving)

A pile driver is considered to be any throw where you control your opponent's body placing his feet straight up in the air with his head straight down and then forcibly drive your opponents head into the canvas or flooring material. It should be noted when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponents body. The fighter who is attempting the submission can either adjust their position, or let go of their hold before being slammed to the canvas.

*** This is crucial that referees are properly advised and trained and that the fighters fully understand this at the rules meeting ***

Proof above .... awaiting your next EXCUSE ... LMAO

You are clearly a troll my fren...

a) If that rule is being enforced why was Nate Marquardt not DQ'd or had a point taken away in the Leites fight?

b) The spiking I am ACTUALLY talking about is the type from the Camoes/Pelligrino fight. I referenced it multiple time, I put up a link to the thread I created that has a gif and it DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE RULES YOU POSTED. You are not controlling your opponent when you piledrive him in this fashion and that makes it PERFECTLY LEGAL. So please read the thread and pay attention to what you are reading.

Here's another link to the thread to show you what I mean since you don't seem to understand it or are just being obtuse to continue to pretend that my post above is incorrect:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=1&thread=1617361&page=1

So if you have any balls, reset, and ANSWER the post (ALL of it - don't just pick one part that you, incorrectly, think it wrong).

BTW: you are really embarrassing yourself at this point. leave the logical fallacy game to guys like orcus who are smart enough to implement them properly. You have become that guy talking way to loud at the party now...

Haulport

Thanks for the anticipated EXCUSES.

LMAO

(a) "If that rule is being enforced why was Nate Marquardt not DQ'd or had a point taken away in the Leites fight?"

The ANSWER:

"The following are fouls and will result in penalties if committed:"

PILEDRIVING !!!!!!

just because a ref doesn't enforce a rule in NO WAY means the technique is legal.

NEWS FLASH: the Denver Broncos only had 6 men on the line of scrimmage when they scored their winning TD. Using your logic having only 6 men on the line of scrimmage is OK. I don't think so. LOL

(b) Your post above clearly states "PILEDRIVING your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA"

I purposely "baited" you by including the exception which is NOT considered to be a piledriver LOL

NEWS FLASH: Haulport - it is you who is embarassing himself with endless "games" which prove you wrong. I'll go back and check how support posts you've had in this thread !!!!

Await your next excuse or excuses : ) Thanks

Keep ignoring the post about the Camoes fight which is what I was CLEARLY referring to. You are talking about a spiking technique that I wasn't even discussing. That's called a strawman argument. Go to Wikipedia and look it up.

Plain and simple: go back to this post (below) and ANSWER IT. If you can't, be MAN enough to admit it. Only children can't ever admit when they are wrong...

Haulport - Yes it is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY to believe that people should have some concept of logic when creating rules for a sport.

- Boxing = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Extreme weight-cutting = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Taking a blind hit in the NFL to your head or spine = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Piledriving your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving

YET let's stop MMA fights EARLY while not banning any of the above stated techniques or sports. That makes PERFECT sense. And if you think what I just stated in THIS particular post is silly or ridiculous please explain why...

The origin of fights in the UFC being stopped due to one fighter getting on top of another and throwing a flurry of punches that hit nothing but air & arms.. yeah, that was a Pat Militich fight.

OP is a perfect example of what TBI can do to someone. You're a fucking moron.

"Only children can't ever admit when they are wrong"

Exactly, SON.

You made an original thread that was torn apart by posters by a factor of more than 10-1.

Then you launch into alternate posts trying to explain what you really meant ... LOL This too was shreaded.

Keep embarassing yourself : )

PS: you are truly an idiot. In my post above I clearly address both your items (a) and (b) and (b) is the CAMOES fight.

See? You have degenerated into trying to misrepresent what has happened on this thread and now you are calling me names. And you STILL have not answered this post:

Haulport - Yes it is ABSOLUTELY CRAZY to believe that people should have some concept of logic when creating rules for a sport.

- Boxing = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Extreme weight-cutting = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Taking a blind hit in the NFL to your head or spine = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving
- Piledriving your opponent's head into the canvas in MMA = more dangerous than taking a few extra shots at the end of fight while you are still moving

YET let's stop MMA fights EARLY while not banning any of the above stated techniques or sports. That makes PERFECT sense. And if you think what I just stated in THIS particular post is silly or ridiculous please explain why...
Answer the post.

Period.


Go BULLET POINT by BULLET POINT and answer it. Otherwise stfu.

Tell me exactly why we should stop MMA fights early when each of those techniques or sports (represented in those bullet points) are not banned. Give it a shot.

And as far as your "you launch into alternate posts trying to explain what you really meant" comment, go back and read my OP. I mention 3 of the 4 points I mentioned in the above post (weight-cutting, the NFL, boxing). So how exactly did I launch into anything alternate when I keep talking about the same things? Stop lying and misrepresenting what happened when people can actually read it and see how incorrect that is. You are clearly very emotional about this and that is interfering with your ability to reason.

Here's the OP for comparison:
Haulport - There is a lot of crying about the "late" stoppages from Strikeforces' card last night.

From the fans
From Pat Militech
From King Mo

The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight. You have Boxing where guys are absorbing INSANE amounts of cumulative punishment on a regular basis. It is in the neighborhood of 1000 times what MMA fighters take. So if you're cool with NFL players getting hit each week and Boxers sparring hard and routinely going 10 rounds in their fights, then you need to relax about 2-3 extra shots to a fighter who is on his way out.

Everyone goes crazy because of how awesome Kongo's KO of Pat Barry was but if the stoppages Pat Militech is in favor of and all of you are crying for, where routinely enforced than that KO would not have happened. Period. The fight would have been called and Kongo would have been upset (and a good chunk of you people would be too) that he didn't get an opportunity to come back even though he was moving.

This is a DANGEROUS sport. Uninformed concern about what damages people and what doesn't damage people is not going to help.

I can tell you this: guys cutting 20-30lbs. 24-48 hours before they get their heads punched repeatedly is WAY more dangerous than late shots. A mildly dehydrated brain bouncing around in your skull is what can REALLY damage fighters. So if you agree with Pat or Mo then please call for the ban of cutting weight first!

haulport

The title of your thread is "LATE Stoppages".

Here is one of the leading sentences "The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight."

THIS is the sentence that I take exception to and violently disagree with.

Personally I don't compare MMA with boxing nor the NFL.

I do agree with the weight cutting issue, in fact, I've been an mma matchmaker for 14 years and we do same day weigh-ins at 4PM to discourage weight cutting. Additionally, up to middleweight, the Commission just requires that we stay within 10 pounds so a matchup could be 167 vs 175 ( technically WW vs MW ).

I've dealt with approximately 1700 fighters over these years and less than 20 have made it to the UFC ( Griggs,Cruz,Riggs,Escudero,Kingsbury,Dan Lauzon, Ricco, Roop, Varner, Fickett, Jardine, Dewees )so fighting with full UFC rules wouldn't make sense here. I certainly favor early rather than late stoppages at this level. And do not want to see late stoppages in the UFC because of ALL the possible ramifications.

As you can see, I disagree with the way weight cutting is handled by the major organizations.

That being said I still disagree, along with MOST of the posters on this thread with your comment regarding "taking a few extra quick shots".

JPet - haulport

The title of your thread is "LATE Stoppages".

Here is one of the leading sentences "The reality is that taking a few extra quick shots at the end IS NOT going to kill anyone or damage them permanently ANY MORE than the normal course of the fight."

THIS is the sentence that I take exception to and violently disagree with.
We can disagree but the reality is that a dehydrated fighter taking accumulated shots to the head is worse than a few extra shots at the end of a fight.

JPet - Personally I don't compare MMA with boxing nor the NFL.
You should. It is not logically consistent to say that MMA fights need to stop ASAP when a guy gets hurt but Bozing is totally okay. If you think boxing is totally ok then you should never say that an MMA fight should stop early.

JPet - I do agree with the weight cutting issue, in fact, I've been an mma matchmaker for 14 years and we do same day weigh-ins at 4PM to discourage weight cutting. Additionally, up to middleweight, the Commission just requires that we stay within 10 pounds so a matchup could be 167 vs 175 ( technically WW vs MW ).

I've dealt with approximately 1700 fighters over these years and less than 20 have made it to the UFC ( Griggs,Cruz,Riggs,Escudero,Kingsbury,Dan Lauzon, Ricco, Roop, Varner, Fickett, Jardine, Dewees )so fighting with full UFC rules wouldn't make sense here. I certainly favor early rather than late stoppages at this level.
As you go down the professional experience ladder I agree that there needs to be certain modifications. Inexperienced, untested guys who don't come from top-flight gyms don't need to be going all out. Too easy for someone dying.

JPet - As you can see, I disagree with the way weight cutting is handled by the major organizations.
So we agree on that.

JPet - That being said I still disagree, along with MOST of the posters on this thread with your comment regarding "taking a few extra quick shots".
Regardless of the sheep like following of the posters on the UG, the fact is they all enjoy, watch and encourage sports that are FAR more dangerous than "late" mma stoppages. It is simply a matter of respected guys like Pat Militech, and the like, pushing their personal (and illogical) opinions that causes the sheep to follow course...

there' a risk of dying when you cagefight. truth.

Haulport, are you calling for an equal ban on all severely dangerous techniques and practices? or simply pointing out the fallacies in the rule books? or are you pointing out the hypocrissy in watching mma and wanting it to be "safe" watching two guys "fight"?

glupe - last night.


definitely a late stoppage. I could have easily avoided worrying about whether or not i got that bitch pregger.



hahahha

haulport

"It is not logically consistent to say that MMA fights need to stop ASAP when a guy gets hurt but Bozing is totally okay. If you think boxing is totally ok then you should never say that an MMA fight should stop early."

YOU MIS-SPEAK !!!!

I NEVER stated that any UFC bout should be stopped early or that ANY bout should be stopped "ASAP when a guy gets hurt" !!! The UFC guys are high level professionals. I only mentioned that lower level pro and amateur shows should lean to EARLY stoppages which in NO way means "ASAP when a guy gets hurt".

If you agree with this we can agree to disagree on the other stuff.

PS: in my opinion Boxing and MMA are not comparable because boxing is repetitive blows to the head and body for up to 36 minutes. A very different sport compared MMA.

armbarseverywhere - there' a risk of dying when you cagefight. truth.

Haulport, are you calling for an equal ban on all severely dangerous techniques and practices? or simply pointing out the fallacies in the rule books? or are you pointing out the hypocrissy in watching mma and wanting it to be "safe" watching two guys "fight"?
Pointing out the fallacies in the rules (and the illogical nature of cheering boxing but getting upset when Larkin takes a couple of extra punches) and also the hypocrisy of wanting it to be "safe". I find all the lip service of the Commissions about safety to be just unbearably phony bullshit.

JPet - haulport

"It is not logically consistent to say that MMA fights need to stop ASAP when a guy gets hurt but Bozing is totally okay. If you think boxing is totally ok then you should never say that an MMA fight should stop early."

YOU MIS-SPEAK !!!!

I NEVER stated that any UFC bout should be stopped early or that ANY bout should be stopped "ASAP when a guy gets hurt" !!! The UFC guys are high level professionals. I only mentioned that lower level pro and amateur shows should lean to EARLY stoppages which in NO way means "ASAP when a guy gets hurt".

If you agree with this we can agree to disagree on the other stuff.

PS: in my opinion Boxing and MMA are not comparable because boxing is repetitive blows to the head and body for up to 36 minutes. A very different sport compared MMA.
well then we have less conflict than previously thought. Ammy and low-level pros should definitely not be allowed to fall all over the place trying to recover like Kongo and Jardine whether it's mma or boxing. That is just ASKING for trouble...

TO me, boxing and mma are definitely comparable. Damage is being done and in Boxing a lot MORE damage is being done.

are better then early ones.

take it easy on haulport, hes taken a few extra shots from life