Legalize cannibalism...

Note: 2 consenting adults:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3230774.stm

A German accused of killing and eating a man he met on a website for cannibals has expressed regret for his actions.
Armin Meiwes, who is awaiting trial, told a German newspaper he wants to deter other people from copying him.

Mr Meiwes, from Rotenburg, says his victim was a willing participant who ate part of his own body before Mr Meiwes stabbed him to death and stored his remains in a freezer.

The 41-year-old computer expert is expected to go on trial on 3 December.

Advertised on internet

The grisly details of the case caused a sensation in the German media when Mr Meiwes was arrested in December, 2002.


Meiwes stored Brandes' remains at his house
Mr Meiwes, a computer expert, met 43-year-old Bernd-Jurgen Brandes in early 2001, after Mr Meiwes advertised on websites for "young, well-built men aged 18 to 30 to slaughter", the German daily newspaper Bild reported at the time of his arrest.

Mr Meiwes told investigators he took Mr Brandes back to his home, where Mr Brandes agreed to have his penis cut off, which Mr Meiwes then flambeed and served up to eat together.

Mr Meiwes says he then killed Mr Brandes with his consent - recording the two-hour event on video.

Life story

"I admit what I've done," Mr Meiwes told Welt am Sonntag newspaper. "I accept that I am guilty and I regret my actions."

Mr Meiwes said he wants to write his life story with the aim of deterring anyone who wanted to copy him.

Disturbingly, a number of websites dedicated to Mr Meiwes have appeared, with people advertising for willing victims.

"They should go for treatment, so it doesn't escalate like it did with me," said Mr Meiwes.

He said he believed there were about 800 "cannibals" in Germany.

Prosecutors are seeking a conviction of murder for "sexual satisfaction", as cannibalism is not technically illegal under German law.




Please let us be tolerant, accepting and loving of these individuals. In fact, I propose we pass laws which will allow these individuals the freedom to do what they want w/out being viewed as criminals! Cannibals are not 2nd class citizens!

Why the Fuc* did I read that. But I get what you're saying.

How dare anyone tell them that cannibalism is animalistic and sub-human!? Don't try and legislate your morality just cause most people eat animals and not people. Why should cannibals be 2nd class citizens?

LOL!!!

I agree with Helwig on this one. The last time they had that really big cannibal parade demanding freedom from persecution of cannabilism, I just couldn't believe it.

Oh wait...there aren't any cannibals asking for equal rights. How silly of me.

Boy, this whole gay thing really got your douchebag in a knot, eh Rooster?

SCRAP

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1171766.stm

Hannibal Lecter is back in cinemas all over the UK this weekend, but as BBC News Online's Chris Summers discovers, the truth about real life cannibals is far scarier than the fiction.
Cannibalism is mankind's most sacred taboo.

But, as the popularity of the Hannibal Lecter films shows, we are all fascinated by the cannibal.

On Friday night cinemas all over the UK are screening Hannibal, the sequel to Silence of the Lambs.

The film's central character is a cultured cannibal, played by Anthony Hopkins, who finds himself on the run but living in luxury in modern Florence.



What is most disturbing about these people is their banality, their normalness.

Daniel Korn, TV producer
Real life cannibal killers tend not to have the wit and black humour of Dr Lecter or the culinary imagination to mix human liver with Chianti and fava beans.

Next week Channel 4 begins a three-part documentary on cannibalism.

The first programme in the series, Cannibal, begins by tracing the extraordinary lives of real life Hannibal Lecters: men such as Arthur Shawcross and Issei Sagawa.

Ancient appetite

Later episodes focus on new archaeological evidence that our ancestors may have routinely resorted to cannibalism and cases in which modern-day humans have resorted to the last taboo simply to survive.

Daniel Korn, who produced the series and has written a book about the phenomenon of cannibalism, managed to track down a real life Hannibal Lecter to the streets of Tokyo.

Issei Sagawa, now 51, admits murdering a French friend, Renee Hartevelt, in a Paris apartment in 1981 and devouring parts of her body.

Two years later a French judge decided he was mentally unfit to stand trial and should be placed in a secure mental hospital indefinitely.

Childhood game

In 1985 he was sent back to Japan. The authorities there considering putting him on trial for the Hartevelt murder but the French refused to hand over the dossier and later that year he was freed after convincing a doctor he had regained his sanity.

Sagawa told the programme makers he had been obsessed with cannibalism from the age of three, when his uncle used to play a game pretending to be a flesh-eating giant.

He said killing and eating his friend was the fulfilment of a lifelong desire.

Sagawa says he will never kill again. But neurologist Professor Jonathan Pincus, who has read his psychiatric report, told the programme he doubted whether Sagawa could keep his word.

'Normal people'

The Channel 4 team also visited another real-life cannibal, US serial killer Arthur Shawcross.

Shawcross, 55, who murdered 11 women - mainly prostitutes - between February 1988 and January 1990, told how he first tried cannibalism in Vietnam,

Mr Korn says that while Sagawa, Shawcross and another famous cannibal - the late Milwaukee serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer - were all deranged, they did not fit our stereotype of a cannibal.

He said: "What is most disturbing about these people is their banality, their normalness.

'Unimaginable savagery'

"It is not as if they are a spectre of evil because that is probably what you are expecting.

"It's the fact that these people are chatting and they are horribly normal, everyday people, yet they are capable of these acts of unimaginable savagery."

But having studied the subject for his book, Mr Korn said he did not believe the practice was restricted to the criminally insane and may always have been a central part of human behaviour.

He says 800,000-year-old bones bearing signs of defleshing or "the cannibalism signature" have been found at Gran Dolina in Spain.



Cannibalism is a very natural, latent characteristic of our behaviour

Daniel Korn
Bones dating from 12,000 years ago, with similar marks, have been found at Cheddar Gorge in Somerset - and more, from about 3,000 years ago, were unearthed near Eton College.

Fijians were apparently eating their enemies 150 years ago and "head hunting" and cannibalism only died out in Borneo and Papua New Guinea earlier last century.

There is also plenty of anecdotal evidence of people - such as the survivors of the 1972 Andes aircrash - resorting to human flesh as a last resort.

Cannibalism is "a very natural, latent characteristic of our behaviour", says Mr Korn.

Food for thought indeed.

The original article noted at least "He said he believed there were about 800 "cannibals" in Germany. "

Just in Germany. Down with oppression, up with cannibalist rights! Let consenting adults be!

scrapper boy:
Boy, this whole gay thing really got your douchebag in a knot, eh Rooster?

Me: let's see, you've called me an ass#$^% and douchebag...your ability to present your side with articulation, reason, and maturity are outstanding. (Try checking out a post by Prof or Rastus to learn how to disagree without taking it so personal). I'm sorry if I've touched a raw nerve. You can overcome this lifestyle scrapper...

scrapper boy: I agree with Helwig on this one. The last time they had that really big cannibal parade demanding freedom from persecution of cannabilism, I just couldn't believe it.
Oh wait...there aren't any cannibals asking for equal rights. How silly of me.

Me: if you read the article,there were 800 cannibals just in Germany alone. Unlike sodomy CANNIBALISM IS ILLEGAL, so that migh impact their desire for parades and the such. Also, because mean spirited bigots like you have driven these poor misunderstood victims underground. They are racked by societal shame and fear because people like you won't give them their rights!

Since when did the "rightness" of something depend on the number of people marching in parades.

let's see, you've called me an ass#$^% and douchebag...I did call you an a*hole (next time you might want to edit out the "cuss" word...hole really isn't a bad word) but I only implied that you had a douchebag. Being one and having one are two different things. Just another example of reading into things. *sighyour ability to present your side with articulation, reason, and maturity are outstanding. (Try checking out a post by Prof or Rastus to learn how to disagree without taking it so personal). I'm sorry if I've touched a raw nerve. You can overcome this lifestyle scrapper...I suggest you do the same. The proof is in Joe Ray's original thread. if you read the article,there were 800 cannibals just in Germany alone. Unlike sodomy CANNIBALISM IS ILLEGAL, so that migh impact their desire for parades and the such. Also, because mean spirited bigots like you have driven these poor misunderstood victims underground. They are racked by societal shame and fear because people like you won't give them their rights!So homosexuality can be compared to cannibalism? If not, what's your point with this thread? If so, can we link Christianity to bigotry and racism? You seem to be fond of making broad judgements about other people yet you don't like it when it's done to you. Since when did the "rightness" of something depend on the number of people marching in parades.I'll have to remember that argument when people say that Christianity is "right" due to how many believers there are.

scrapper please don't beat around your bush...just answer the arguement...why should cannibilsm be illegal?

scrapper boy: So homosexuality can be compared to cannibalism? If not, what's your point with this thread? If so, can we link Christianity to bigotry and racism? You seem to be fond of making broad judgements about other people yet you don't like it when it's done to you.

Me: I really could care less what you think about me or say. Neither of our broad based statements are evidentiary of whether they are true or not. dealing with the content of your premise, let me say this:

The idea that Gays should be able to redefine Marriage and get special benefits that no other group but a man/woman get is based on 1) they are consenting adults 2) it's nobodys business what they do 3) they are being denied the rights

Based on that, why can't that argument be made for any "oppressed group". Such as consenting adults who want to eat each other.

Ultimately this is a moral issue. You believe that gays should be able to get married because it's "right, good, moral". What do you base your standard of "right" on? And for that matter, on what basis do you define things as wrong.

Why don't you utilize the same sense of openmindness, tolerance, compassion, understanding etc. to my position that you want me to have for your position?

scrapper boy: I did call you an a**hole (next time you might want to edit out the "cuss" word...hole really isn't a bad word) but I only implied that you had a douchebag. Being one and having one are two different things. Just another example of reading into things. *sigh*

Me: well an ass is a stubborn mule so it's really not a cussword.

By the way, where do you train scrapper?

Kempo, I noticed that a lot of my questions are left unanswered...

Rooster: I really could care less what you think about me or say. Neither of our broad based statements are evidentiary of whether they are true or not.Me: You obviously care or you wouldn't have gotten so worked up on the original thread and made 3 more threads to try and prove yourself right. If neither of our broad statements are "true", it's relative then? Rooster: The idea that Gays should be able to redefine Marriage and get special benefits that no other group but a man/woman get is based on 1) they are consenting adults 2) it's nobodys business what they do 3) they are being denied the rightsI think the movement is coming from the perspective that people who are homosexual aren't immoral, sinful, and condemned to eternal hell. Labelling homosexuals as you have is about as intelligent as believing the sun circles the earth. It's just another example of someone using their chosen religion to justify their emotions. Based on that, why can't that argument be made for any "oppressed group". Such as consenting adults who want to eat each other.Again, are you saying homosexuals and cannibals are equal? Rooster: Ultimately this is a moral issue. You believe that gays should be able to get married because it's "right, good, moral". What do you base your standard of "right" on? And for that matter, on what basis do you define things as wrong.You're right, it is a moral issue and you've admitted that you hold a double standard (with the lesbian joke). If homosexuals are SUCH a detriment to society, and are SO immoral, why extend ANY rights to them at all? If you are going to attack this from a "moral" perspective, and claim that you adhere to the True moral teachings of God, why do you even tolerate homosexuals in our society? It's funny when Christians "allow" homosexuals to have some rights but draw the line at marriage. Why don't you utilize the same sense of openmindness, tolerance, compassion, understanding etc. to my position that you want me to have for your position?I do have those qualities towards your position. I do understand (or think I do) why you believe the things you do because I was in the same position when I was younger. I went to church, read the Bible, prayed to God, etc. I also "knew" that homosexuals were dirty, filthy perverts who were surely going to hell and growing up in Orlando, Florida, there were plenty of bad examples to justify my beliefs. It was easy for me to feel that way because it didn't have a direct impact on my life. Then I joined the Navy, travelled the world and started to see things differently. THEN the homosexual issue hit closer to home and I had to re-evaluate my thinking. Even though I wasn't a Christian I still labelled homosexuality as "wrong". It wasn't easy to look into those beliefs and find out that their basis was plain ignorance (big ego). The word "ignorance" really bugged me but that's what it really was. Just as I don't label ALL Christians bigots and racists (if you honestly go back and read what I wrote you'll see that I don't lump everyone in to one big group) I simply cannot label ALL homosexuals as immoral, perverted, etc. Rooster, you said in another thread that I shouldn't let my emotions be the basis for my judgements (or something like that). But I think that's part of the problem today. It's easy to pass judgement on people we never interact with, but when they come into your life, if you're sincere, you have to look at your beliefs in a different light.

Rooster: well an ass is a stubborn mule so it's really not a cussword.You've definitely shown your stubborness! haha! Of course, I have too...Rooster: By the way, where do you train scrapper?You planning on visiting Hawaii any time soon? I was a student under Egan Inoue for a few years. Now I'm his conditioning coach. My website is here: www.trainforstrength.comscrapper please don't beat around your bush...just answer the arguement...why should cannibilsm be illegal?Would the correct answer be "Because my Holy Book says so?" Rooster: Kempo, I noticed that a lot of my questions are left unanswered...It's not that your questions are left unanswered, you just don't seem to read the answers that people give you. SCRAP

"It was easy for me to feel that way because it didn't have a direct impact on my life. Then I joined the Navy, travelled the world and started to see things differently. THEN the homosexual issue hit closer to home and I had to re-evaluate my thinking."

Ergo: It´s a good thing to travel and try to live in different cultures because it will make you more open-minded eventually.

So it´s time for you to pack your bags rooster.. ;-)

scrapper: You obviously care or you wouldn't have gotten so worked up on the original thread and made 3 more threads to try and prove yourself right. If neither of our broad statements are "true", it's relative then?

Me: I'm passionate about my beliefs and don't like to be misrepresented. The point of following up is to try to bring it back to the original premises.

scrapper: I think the movement is coming from the perspective that people who are homosexual aren't immoral, sinful, and condemned to eternal hell. Labelling homosexuals as you have is about as intelligent as believing the sun circles the earth. It's just another example of someone using their chosen religion to justify their emotions.

Me: I do not have the authority to put anyone in hell, so I have to condemned anyone to hell. Are you (sigh) lying again? I have stated that their behaviour is considered biblically sinful and immoral. I have also included tons of other sexual sins (including all kinds of hetero) so you would see that humanity shares collectively through our fallen nature in sin. The idea is not that were handing out "hell cards" but that we all individual see our imperfect nature and seek to 1) overcome it (many choose to do that through religion, others through sport, self help etc.) and 2)for Christians, to seek forgiveness. It's not about condemnation, it's about providing hope for people that 1) they can be forgiven and 2) they can overcome their behaviour (hetero, homo, bi whatever) and live according to the biblical model.

more...

scrapper: Again, are you saying homosexuals and cannibals are equal?

Me: not the action, the underlying premise behind the arguement (2 consenting adults, misunderstood etc.) are the same. If you cannot make a moral argument, nor a legal arguement, nor an economic or health argument, why would you for these other lifestyle behaviours?

scrapper: You're right, it is a moral issue and you've admitted that you hold a double standard (with the lesbian joke). If homosexuals are SUCH a detriment to society, and are SO immoral, why extend ANY rights to them at all?

Me: My lesbo joke was to illustrate that what appeals to us personally, what we like, what we desire to participate in doesn't excuse us from the moral culpability and consequences of participating in that behavior. Despite the fact that I WAS BORN WITH A DESIRE TO SEE LIPSTICKS GOING AT IT, that doesn't make it moral nor should I ask society to endores it or change the laws to support it. I'm glad you admitted it is a moral issue. So what's your benchmark for what it good and what is bad? The reason we extend any rights is because we don't force or coerce behaviour. We have a legal system of laws based on historical community standards. As such, we all (unless we commit crimes) are entitled to constitutional rights. All other rights are subject to our local laws/community standards.

more...

scrapper: If you are going to attack this from a "moral" perspective, and claim that you adhere to the True moral teachings of God, why do you even tolerate homosexuals in our society? It's funny when Christians "allow" homosexuals to have some rights but draw the line at marriage.

Me: I don't just tolerate homosexuals, I'm called as a Christian to love homosexuals (and all people). Out of love, I'm responsible for 1) being honest w/ people about those activities which dangerous and which are in opposition to God's will (if they ask for my opinion and are private about their choices) and 2) to actively oppose societal advocation of any sinful lifestyle (gambling, prostitution etc.) that can over time cause the degragation of the community that I and my family and friends live, pay taxes and are responsible for. Scrapper, marriage is not a "right" it's a privilege. All Americans have certain rights, then w/in our laws is all kinds of privileges. Professional athletes have "special rights" that I don't have. Musicians have "special rights" that I don't have. Politicans have "special rights" I don't have.

scrapper: I also "knew" that homosexuals were dirty, filthy perverts who were surely going to hell and growing up in Orlando, Florida, there were plenty of bad examples to justify my beliefs.

Me: Scrapper, I was never taught such vitriol at my church. My passion is not for the adults who privately pursue any legal lifestyle choice (it's none of my business). My opposition and anger is reserved for militants seeking to change the current laws and push their moral views upon communities.

scrapper: Then I joined the Navy, travelled the world and started to see things differently. THEN the homosexual issue hit closer to home and I had to re-evaluate my thinking.

Me: Scrapper, I travel all over the US have traveled internationally and have family and friends who have made these lifestyle choices. We respectfully agree to disagree. I've been studying these issues for 20 years, so I've had a chance to research the pro's and cons for years.

scrapper: I simply cannot label ALL homosexuals as immoral, perverted, etc.

Me: dude, as a Christian, we are all immoral (sinners) and Jesus came to save us FROM sin, not to save us and leave us IN sin.

scrapper: It's easy to pass judgement on people we never interact with, but when they come into your life, if you're sincere, you have to look at your beliefs in a different light.

Me: maybe what you mean is how you "feel" not what you "think". I can come off as hard core when debating ideas, but I can assure you I always try to reach out to people on a personal one on one relationship with love and respect. (again, unless some militant is in my face, then I reserve the right to be just as passionate).

scrapper: You planning on visiting Hawaii any time soon? I was a student under Egan Inoue for a few years. Now I'm his conditioning coach. My website is here: www.trainforstrength.com

Me: very impressive website. I bookmarked it. Sometimes sport helps to overcome different beliefs. I appreciate your passion for workingout. Please understand that I have that passion for the bible and for studying it. I travel a lot so I was hoping we could get together and train. Sometimes that helps to eliminate disrespect and foster comradarie. However, HA is to far away! Good website.

HEY...a mans gotta eat :-]

yours in Christ

sherm