Lets talk about Original Sin

The concept of Original sin is from Paul.

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

But Genesis says:

6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Just as we all are from Adam's seed, so are we from Noahs.

Paul was wrong when he states that all men have sinned.

Since we are all decendants of Noah, why 'must' all men be guilty of sin?

*edit*

forget it. I'll let the fundies run with this before I comment. 

I guess all the great theologians of the Church were some real dummies huh?  If only they had read their Bibles.

Didn't Noah get shit faced drunk? That's a sin.

I guess what you're saying is that the Bible is not a good source.

I didn't say Noah was perfect.

The Bible does.

"If only they had read their Bibles."

Yes, maybe. It may have saved us all alot of trouble.

My question is why follow Paul, when he obviously did not know his scripture.

Because we are all stupid of course!

You are a troll. Where are you getting these cut and pastes?

You are lame because you are not coming on here, saying, "hey guys, I have some questions..." or "how do you guys reconcile this..." but you posts these scriptures with some lame attempt to prove that the bible is not consistent. But "ye do err NOT KNOWING THE SCRIPTURE..."

Why was Noah perfect(innocent, whole, complete, sound)?

Gen 6:8 But Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the LORD.

Noah was PERFECT because He was covered by God's GRACE!

Do a study on the concept of GRACE smart guy and then come back when you've decided to actually have a conversation.

Noah was PERFECT because He was covered by God's GRACE!

Does that mean all Christians are perfect?

Christians are "perfect" (the hebrew is more robust and means, complete, innocent, whole, sound)who find grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Our imperfections are removed from us as far as the east is from the west.

Does that mean we are perfect to our fellow man? Of course not. Does it mean we or Noah never sinned? Of course not. It means that those in a right relationship with God are covered and made whole, innocent, sound, right, by God's grace.

Noah wasn't perfect because he was sinless. Noah was perfect because he applied the grace of God to his life.

Noah got drunk, that's a sin, Moses ignored Gods instructions (struck the ground twice instead of once) for this he was denied entrance into the Promised Land. Your reading of scripture is in error.

One of the most important concepts in Christianity is original sin or the belief that all mankind has inherited a sinful nature brought about by the acts of Adam and Eve.

Rom. 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
Rom. 5:19 "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,..."
1Cor. 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, ..."

No amount of reasoning can make an inherently unjust idea seem right. Punishing billions of people for the acts of one is not only inherently unfair and
unwarranted but also in opposition to other Biblical verses such as:

Deut. 24:16 "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers (2Chron.25:54) :every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (2 Kings 14:6)

Ezek. 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bearthe iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Ezek.33:20 "O ye house of Israel,I will judge you every one after his ways."

Jer. 31:29-30 "In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge."

Rom. 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds."

Ezek. 18:4 "... the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

Each of these verses shows that every person should only be punished for those sins which he commits, not those of others.

If you are to point out that 'every one sins', that would just point out that God, in His 'perfection' created us flawed and is punishing us for His mistake.

MrFixit said, "No amount of reasoning can make an inherently unjust idea seem right. Punishing billions of people for the acts of one is not only inherently unfair and unwarranted but also in opposition to other Biblical verses such as:"

Billions of people aren't punished for the acts of one. You are, you either accept or reject Christ, this acceptance or rejection is predicated on knowlege of. If you have no knowledge of Christ you can't be judged by the standards I will be judged by. But a person ignorant of Christ will still be judged because, the truth is written on your heart. Everyone knows right from wrong, why is that?

might I point out, Jews in no way believe in this concept of inherited original sin.

Mr. Fixit is just googling this site:

http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/bepart11.html

He's probably a 14 year old kid with to much time on his hands...

If you cannot attack the message, attack the messenger.

The site does not offer much in the way of rebuttal. I am here to find out what some , if there are any, may be.

Not admitting that you have been copying your questions from a site is lame.  Its actually a form of plagiarism.  The sad thing is that the authors of that site don't even understand what original sin and ancestral sin means.  They clearly don't have any experience in hermeneutics.   You see, they too suffer from the disease of having a little learning and suddenly becoming obnoxious before they complete their learning.  And you are the one who actually copies them. 

It's actually very hard to admit you don't know much about an area where you already have an opinion. I have found it in myself with certain aspects of Christianity, and often see it in discussions with Christians regarding science (evolution for example). Ocianain would be a prime example of this from the christians on here.

I think it comes from an intense desire not to defer to the other side in case the argument is lost. Sometimes a little reading can be a dangerous thing, worse that just admitting you don't know much at all.

Chance,



What does that have to do with a person who comes to this forum to cut and paste from an anti-Christian website who misrepresents his intentions and doesn't acknowledge the source of his posts?

mr. fix it:
If you cannot attack the message, attack the messenger.

me: who wants to take the time to respond to a troll who isn't intersted in what we say, just in splattering what he thinks are objections (which are not nearly as objectional as you may think).

you: The site does not offer much in the way of rebuttal. I am here to find out what some , if there are any, may be.

me: really...then why didn't you say that in the beginning. I think everyone would have been more comfortable engaging you if you were honestly wanting to know how Christians interpret various scriptures.

Rooster,

Hypocrite. You've done the same thing.

Fraud.