Lets talk gi for a minute

Ah good stuff

'"Might make you reliant on the handles."

Thats my major concern to be honest.'

Dont be too worried, if u like the no gi game more you will play it.. You don't have to learn the tricks of the gi game, although maybe you'll get caught with some and just wanna learn that too for shits and giggles.

Just wear the gi, don't use it. It still helps

helwig, if you learn to play a good spider guard game w/ cave grips, kiss your fingers good bye to teh arthritis. years of gi grappling have fucken totalled my knuckles. some of my fingers look like winding roads.

Gumby

I thought Diaz was also pure no-gi

From what i have heard the cesar guys say he has never put on a gi

You don't always necessarily have to rely on "handles"
for example, instead of grabbing the collar, grab the back of the neck. Part of your GI game should be adaptable for no GI so practice moves that will mainly work for both.

Personally, I think people look cooler wearing a gi than rashguard and boardshorts.

That's why I like training with a gi.

Before every no gi tournament I have ever competed in, I always train in the Gi mostly. I only train no gi about once a week. I feel the gi helps me technically. Tom DeBlass

ttt wanting to hear more from Sultan

Hey Helwig, I have been a no gi guy for along time, just over the last couple of months I have been training in the gi for something different.

I think it will help your overall grappling game, when I take the gi off I am much tighter than before.

Since you are a MMA guy, I would say not to focus on the tourney style half guard, x guard, spider guard stuff, focus on the old school game of closed guard, etc...

Alot of the 'sport bjj' will just get you pounded in MMA IMO.

Also just grappling with the gi and not trying to use the handles, just having that damn thing on will work your escapes, etc...

I'm not to sure using a Gi is the way ahead to improve your ground game for MMA.

While i dont doubt that it improves your BJJ i would argue that your time would be better spent in other areas.

For example we have guys that are training with us now, that are at very good levels in Judo. They are very technical on the gorund. Infact one of them was a national champion (of some sort) at his weight.

When we train on the ground we spend 50% of our time rolling and the other 50% rolling and striking.  Now when i rolled with the judo guys i found them pretty awkward, but the minute we started adding in strikes i took apart and subbed them with simple submissions very quickly.

My point be while i dont doubt usin a gi wiill improve your game, there might be other things that will improve it more. Like spending the time deveolping your GnP and taking it to an even higher level.

I mean are BJJ submissions really the most effective tools in MMA anymore?

Just food for thought. 

 

See the "MMA phasing out the gi" thread from yesterday. Thanks

i would only wear a gi if it was an american flag GI

and wear it EVERYWHERE

"If you use that line of reasoning, you might as well not spar Muay Thai or Boxing with 16 ozs or drill wrestling takedowns without strikes."

I some what agree with that last statement.

Hughes couldn't take GSP down, Nog struggled to take CroCop down Sanchez couldn't get kosh down etc etc. Take downs should be drilled on a partner who is striking.

All i am sayng is BJJ isn't the be all and end all of MMA.

Also if you look at the current UFC champions you prob have a 50/50 split of those who have trained alot with a Gi and those that havent. It all depends on where you want to strengths to be.

 I personally would rather spend my time improving my striking on the ground, as i think it is a better tool for MMA. Take Nog v Fedor, or Freeman v Mir, or you need to no further than Hughes v Gracie.

I'm not slating anyone for using the Gi, just offering a different view point.

"All i am sayng is BJJ isn't the be all and end all of MMA."

I understand where you are going with that.

IMO, this is where people get confused. The question was geared specifically towards the BJJ aspect of Helwig's training.

Therefore, the "end all be all" does not apply here.

"I personally would rather spend my time improving my striking on the ground, as i think it is a better tool for MMA. Take Nog v Fedor, or Freeman v Mir, or you need to no further than Hughes v Gracie.

I'm not slating anyone for using the Gi, just offering a different view point."

This precisely the point I wanted to make.

Why not practice strikes with the gi on? This will solve the problem of training solely sport jiu-jitsu because you have now added in strikes to the scenario.

The added constraints of having a gi on make it more difficult to maintain dominant positions at times when you sit up to strike, etc. the guy has friction on his side to be able to push against you and escape his hips or something like that.

Helwig ---

Do you have any specific questions from what I've said so far?

"IMO, this is where people get confused. The question was geared specifically towards the BJJ aspect of Helwig's training. "

" Im an mma guy. Im trying to be "the ultimate fighting champion" not win copa de mundial. If it will make me a better fighter, Im game. But being good at doing at a bunch of moves that rely on grabbing the belt or collar has zero appeal for me. "

He states in his first post his goal is MMA not BJJ

 

"This precisely the point I wanted to make.

Why not practice strikes with the gi on? This will solve the problem of training solely sport jiu-jitsu because you have now added in strikes to the scenario.

The added constraints of having a gi on make it more difficult to maintain dominant positions at times when you sit up to strike, etc. the guy has friction on his side to be able to push against you and escape his hips or something like that. "

I see where you going with that, however i'm not to sure i'd like someone pulling a Gi over my head then raining punches down on my head :-D.

Actually all jokes aside that sounds kinda interesting, i might give that a bash and see how it goes.

"I mean are BJJ submissions really the most effective tools in MMA anymore?"

Interesting point. Id say that the most effective tool on your side for MMA is the ability to end the fight at any time. Unless you have KO power in your strikes that means submitting the guy.

The best submissions skills Ive seen come from BJJ.

"Do you have any specific questions from what I've said so far?"

No Ive absorbed everything youve posted and gotten some new perspective on the issue. Thanks again.

...so if I am understanding what most of the pro gi'ers are sayings, its that the gi slows the game down and forces technique over power/speed/sweat...does that mean its not actually the gi....could you just were long sleeves and long pants...that way there are less grips?...is it actually the gi or the friction the gi creates...cause I think that some no-gi'ers would probably agree that friction can help...take Bravo's stance on wear gi pants or Aoki's tights...

bgyuk ---

"He states in his first post his goal is MMA not BJJ"

You are misinterpreting what is being said. MMA is mixed martial arts and that is broken up in to percentages of each of the dominant styles.

Let's say for the sake of argument that it is wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai and Boxing. Remember these numbers are just for the sake of argument and can vary with each individual.

say 25% wrestling, 25% BJJ, 25% Muay Thai and 25% Boxing are this individuals break down.

Now analyze that 25% BJJ portion. This is the portion that we are discussing. Not BJJ as an entity by itself, by rather the application of BJJ towards MMA.

That is why I said this.

"The question was geared specifically towards the BJJ aspect of Helwig's training."