Lionel Messi: 'Soul of a Man' - World Cup 2018

DavidYorkshire -


If you can do it both in the corner and powerful its close to unstoppable.



 



no can defend

Messi is the GOAT. Regarding forwards I believe that Mandzukic is better then Ronaldo - he is a Croat and flops like R..

SpartaKick - 
whitesun -
SpartaKick -

He's no Maradonna

Agree, he is much better.

 

Unless Messi can pull off a similar stunt to  'the hand of god' or score the best individual goal in world cup history or win the world cup.. he will never reach Maradonas status. Maradona did all of those things in the same tournament.

Hand of god might be a bit tricky with this new VARS bollocks


He has already - he brought ARG to the finals 4 years ago and qualified them for this WC. No flopping, no horseshit.

Graduate1 -
SpartaKick - 
whitesun -
SpartaKick -

He's no Maradonna

Agree, he is much better.

 

Unless Messi can pull off a similar stunt to  'the hand of god' or score the best individual goal in world cup history or win the world cup.. he will never reach Maradonas status. Maradona did all of those things in the same tournament.

Hand of god might be a bit tricky with this new VARS bollocks


He has already - he brought ARG to the finals 4 years ago and qualified them for this WC. No flopping, no horseshit.

You have to win the world cup though to take it to the next level. If he never wins that cup.. he will always be 'the best player to have ever lived that never won a world cup' 

There is no doubt that Messi is the most talented soccer player ever to exist.
But C. Ronaldo, with his breathtaking combination of speed, athleticism, and technical wizard is now, after last game is the true GOAT.
I hate to say is but is all Ronaldo right now - top of his game. The soccer world has NEVER had a true athlete with the skills of Ronaldo.
Haters gonna hate.

-D0DG3R D0GG13- - 
DavidYorkshire -


If you can do it both in the corner and powerful its close to unstoppable.



 



no can defend



If you shoot it like that every time, I can assure you that your penalty success rate would be below 70%.



There is just too much risk when you go for the gold every time with penalty shots.  You are going to kick it over the bar or to the side.



There is a medium risk reward just by hitting it hard and on goal.

HotSteppa - There is no doubt that Messi is the most talented soccer player ever to exist.
But C. Ronaldo, with his breathtaking combination of speed, athleticism, and technical wizard is now, after last game is the true GOAT.
I hate to say is but is all Ronaldo right now - top of his game. The soccer world has NEVER had a true athlete with the skills of Ronaldo.
Haters gonna hate.


That was a great game (best of his career - no doubt), but did you read the past page?



Ronaldo has been in 3 world cups before this.



Before this game, he has never scored more than 1 goal in any World Cup.



Don't get me wrong.  



Messi has underwhelmed as well (relative to how good he is in Club).



But that one game doesn't make him the GOAT.



If you are going to go by World Cup performance, Ronaldo isn't even the best Ronaldo in football history.

HotSteppa - There is no doubt that Messi is the most talented soccer player ever to exist.
But C. Ronaldo, with his breathtaking combination of speed, athleticism, and technical wizard is now, after last game is the true GOAT.
I hate to say is but is all Ronaldo right now - top of his game. The soccer world has NEVER had a true athlete with the skills of Ronaldo.
Haters gonna hate.

Pele

SpartaKick - 
lionsoul -
Boofhead3 - 

Messi is a great player but has never performed for Argentina where as Ronaldo has for Portugal. Don't get me wrong he is an an amazing player but the best perform for club and country 

This is just bullshit.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have underwhelmed (compared to their club performance) in general when it comes to International competition.  That said - they are still better than most.

I posted this on the World Cup thread, but might was well here:

Just a point of reference for how awful Messi's supporting cast have been:

- Until now, Sergio Aguero has NEVER scored a single goal in a World Cup.

- Also - Sergio Aguero did not score a single goal in qualifiers for the World Cup.  

- Incredibly, only two 'players' scored for Argentina in their final eight World Cup qualifiers: Messi, and an own goal.

- Argentina needed the very last game of qualifying in order to make the World Cup (they were in a must win situation) and went down 1-0 in the first couple of minutes of the game.  Messi brought them back with a hat-trick to just get them into the World Cup.

The reality is that nobody in the world but Messi would have even gotten Argentina into this World Cup.  They would have been on the sidelines.
 
And if you really want to compare Messi vs. Ronaldo at World Cups, until this last game:
- Ronaldo has NEVER scored more than 1 goal in ANY World Cup (despite playing 3 World Cups before this).
- That is just just 3 goals in 13 matches.
 
That said, he had the best performance of his career in that last game against Spain and deserves all the credit.  But let's not employ revisionist history about how he is some big game player in World Cups.  Until this last match, he was piss poor (by any standards but especially his standards).
 
Neither Messi nor Ronaldo have been standout in World Cups (by their own standards).  That said, Messi did take his side to the Final in the last World Cup and was the consensus best player in the cup (Won the Golden Ball).
 
Finally - Messi has taken his team to the Finals in the last 3 International competitions:
- Took Argentina to the final in the Copa America.  The game ended in a tie.  The team lost in penalty shots.
- Took Argentina to the World Cup Final.  The game ended in a tie (in regulation).  Germany scored a goal in the 115th minute.
- Took Argentina to the final in the Copa America.  The game ended in a tie.  The team lost in penalty shots.
 
In 2 out of 3 of the those finals, Messi had set up perfect assist passes where his teammate would just have to pass it in and they missed.  In 2 of those 3 finals, Higuain missed simple goal opportunities.  If any of those went in, Messi's legacy instantly changes.  
 
In contrast, while Portugal won the Euro, Ronaldo didn't even play in the Final (left the game early).  Portugal managed to get the Finals win without him.
 
Just for comparison, Maradona never scored in his World Cup Finals.  He did manage to have the key assist that won the game in one of them.  But his teammate stepped it up when Argentina needed him to.
 
Maradona never won a Copa America.  Messi has scored more goals than any Argentine for club and country (that includes all-time great goal scorers like Batistuta).
 

Good post - also Maradona didn't really have any competition at the time as "World's best player" so he was free to be himself where as Messi has compete with Ronaldo and the extra pressures of being compared to Maradona.

But at the end of the day - people will remember the most skilled individual playing soccer as the best ever because take take their country to the world cup final and win. Pele and Maradona.

People that don't even watch or like soccer could still tell you that Maradona is the best ever because of his run in Mexico 86' - unfortunately this is the type of thing that people remember rather than his stats and fantastic goals etc.

Until Ronaldo or Messi do that (Ronaldo taking the edge here because of winning the Euro cup) Maradona will be the god of of modern football. Brazilian Ronaldo could also be mentioned in the same sentence with Maradona and Pele (imo).

Messi probably has a greater skill set than maradona but you have to take into account that playing back in the 70s and 80s was much harder due to shittier fields, balls and kit.

If Zindane won the the '06 World Cup people might be talking about him being the GOAT too.

 

 

 


Lest we forget, Maradona played in the period of Platini and Zico, and there were more later on to challenge his dominance. So it wasn't as if he didn't have any competition.

Pele might have won 3 world cups, but I think he was really influential in only the last one. He was the breakout young sensation in 58, he was injured in the early matches in 62 and only was boss in 70.

Maradona literally won the tournament by himself in 86, got to the finals again in 90 (while looking like shit) and looked really good in 94 before being kicked out for drugs.

So Zidane winning in 02 while not winning in 06 is no shame on him.

Besides, Messi has been in only 1 world cup final and is not rated as highly as Pele and Maradona. There is no argument there.

But it puts him on par with Cruyff at least.

I guess neither Messi nor Ronaldo will be considered GOAT unless whey win it at least once, and this is their final chance.

But then again, Di Stefano never won it either, and he's also rated among the GOAT.

DavidYorkshire -


I dont like that penalty.  Its neither very powerful, nor very accurate (in the corner).  those are the type that get saved quite often.



If i was a player i would have  a personal rule (or desire).  it either has to be in the corner , or it has to be hard.  If its saved then, well that is just the way it goes.  But if it is neither in the corner, nor powerful.......  



 



Matt Letissier was the best penalty taker i have ever seen.  scored 48/49.  and the one miss was one of the last ones.   he used to just place it right in the corner.



 



Alan shearer used power, and had a 90% success rate.



 

Balotelli is great at taking penalty kicks too - he jukes the keeper.

SpartaKick -
whitesun -
SpartaKick -

He's no Maradonna

Agree, he is much better.

 

Unless Messi can pull off a similar stunt to  'the hand of god' or score the best individual goal in world cup history or win the world cup.. he will never reach Maradonas status. Maradona did all of those things in the same tournament.

Hand of god might be a bit tricky with this new VARS bollocks

Messi is the greatest football player in history easily.

messi isn't even the greatest Argentinian

 

how can he be the greatest footballer lmao

 

Ronaldo all day

Wahlau -
SpartaKick - 
lionsoul -
Boofhead3 - 

Messi is a great player but has never performed for Argentina where as Ronaldo has for Portugal. Don't get me wrong he is an an amazing player but the best perform for club and country 

This is just bullshit.

Both Messi and Ronaldo have underwhelmed (compared to their club performance) in general when it comes to International competition.  That said - they are still better than most.

I posted this on the World Cup thread, but might was well here:

Just a point of reference for how awful Messi's supporting cast have been:

- Until now, Sergio Aguero has NEVER scored a single goal in a World Cup.

- Also - Sergio Aguero did not score a single goal in qualifiers for the World Cup.  

- Incredibly, only two 'players' scored for Argentina in their final eight World Cup qualifiers: Messi, and an own goal.

- Argentina needed the very last game of qualifying in order to make the World Cup (they were in a must win situation) and went down 1-0 in the first couple of minutes of the game.  Messi brought them back with a hat-trick to just get them into the World Cup.

The reality is that nobody in the world but Messi would have even gotten Argentina into this World Cup.  They would have been on the sidelines.
 
And if you really want to compare Messi vs. Ronaldo at World Cups, until this last game:
- Ronaldo has NEVER scored more than 1 goal in ANY World Cup (despite playing 3 World Cups before this).
- That is just just 3 goals in 13 matches.
 
That said, he had the best performance of his career in that last game against Spain and deserves all the credit.  But let's not employ revisionist history about how he is some big game player in World Cups.  Until this last match, he was piss poor (by any standards but especially his standards).
 
Neither Messi nor Ronaldo have been standout in World Cups (by their own standards).  That said, Messi did take his side to the Final in the last World Cup and was the consensus best player in the cup (Won the Golden Ball).
 
Finally - Messi has taken his team to the Finals in the last 3 International competitions:
- Took Argentina to the final in the Copa America.  The game ended in a tie.  The team lost in penalty shots.
- Took Argentina to the World Cup Final.  The game ended in a tie (in regulation).  Germany scored a goal in the 115th minute.
- Took Argentina to the final in the Copa America.  The game ended in a tie.  The team lost in penalty shots.
 
In 2 out of 3 of the those finals, Messi had set up perfect assist passes where his teammate would just have to pass it in and they missed.  In 2 of those 3 finals, Higuain missed simple goal opportunities.  If any of those went in, Messi's legacy instantly changes.  
 
In contrast, while Portugal won the Euro, Ronaldo didn't even play in the Final (left the game early).  Portugal managed to get the Finals win without him.
 
Just for comparison, Maradona never scored in his World Cup Finals.  He did manage to have the key assist that won the game in one of them.  But his teammate stepped it up when Argentina needed him to.
 
Maradona never won a Copa America.  Messi has scored more goals than any Argentine for club and country (that includes all-time great goal scorers like Batistuta).
 

Good post - also Maradona didn't really have any competition at the time as "World's best player" so he was free to be himself where as Messi has compete with Ronaldo and the extra pressures of being compared to Maradona.

But at the end of the day - people will remember the most skilled individual playing soccer as the best ever because take take their country to the world cup final and win. Pele and Maradona.

People that don't even watch or like soccer could still tell you that Maradona is the best ever because of his run in Mexico 86' - unfortunately this is the type of thing that people remember rather than his stats and fantastic goals etc.

Until Ronaldo or Messi do that (Ronaldo taking the edge here because of winning the Euro cup) Maradona will be the god of of modern football. Brazilian Ronaldo could also be mentioned in the same sentence with Maradona and Pele (imo).

Messi probably has a greater skill set than maradona but you have to take into account that playing back in the 70s and 80s was much harder due to shittier fields, balls and kit.

If Zindane won the the '06 World Cup people might be talking about him being the GOAT too.

 

 

 


Lest we forget, Maradona played in the period of Platini and Zico, and there were more later on to challenge his dominance. So it wasn't as if he didn't have any competition.

Pele might have won 3 world cups, but I think he was really influential in only the last one. He was the breakout young sensation in 58, he was injured in the early matches in 62 and only was boss in 70.

Maradona literally won the tournament by himself in 86, got to the finals again in 90 (while looking like shit) and looked really good in 94 before being kicked out for drugs.

So Zidane winning in 02 while not winning in 06 is no shame on him.

Besides, Messi has been in only 1 world cup final and is not rated as highly as Pele and Maradona. There is no argument there.

But it puts him on par with Cruyff at least.

I guess neither Messi nor Ronaldo will be considered GOAT unless whey win it at least once, and this is their final chance.

But then again, Di Stefano never won it either, and he's also rated among the GOAT.

From the huge numbers of fellow past and present players saying it, to his style of play and natural ability, to his Goal scoring record and overall statistics Messi is the greatest player in history. A World Cup on his final attempt would be the ultimate reward for him, and one he deserves.

I should have known LionSoul is a soccer fan

^^^^ Yeah - on Pele - I think far too much is made of his World Cup titles.

The dude had the greatest World Cup squad and with the exception of one of his titles, wasn't necessarily even the best player on the team.

Also - important to note that in all 3 of Pele's World Cup wins, there were only 16 teams playing back then.

Hard to compare just how competitive and difficult things are now (given how many teams are playing) versus then.  The reality is that there is no comparison.

Also the way that the World Cup was structured back then made it easier to get to the Final (i.e. there were room for mistakes along the way).  

You had 2 group stages basically.  The top teams from the group stages in the first round then have another group stage.

The top teams from the second group stage played in the World Cup Final.

In the system we have now, you have the group stage and then every subsequent game is a knockout match.  Much more difficult and competitive IMO.

Back then, there was room for having bad games and still moving on. Not as stressful or competitive in that regard.

Pele NEVER won a Golden Boot.  He was NEVER the Top Scorer in any of his World Cups.  

Pele was fortunate to play on some of the best teams ever assembled:

- In the 1958 Brazil World Cup win, A young Pelé did not play until the last of Brazil's group games, against the Soviet Union.  He was given the award of best young player.  Brazil won the tournament.  This was arguably his best World Cup.

- In 1962, Pele was injured for the majority of the tournament (was injured in the 2nd match).  Pele only scored 1 goal in the entire tournament.  Brazil WON without his contribution.

- In 1966 (Brazil was knocked off in the group stages), Pele only scored 1 goal in the tournament.

- In 1970, Brazil was considered to have the Greatest Team ever assembled.  There were 3 players in the tournament who scored more goals than Pele (he had 4 goals).  A Peruvian player (Teófilo Cubillas - who won the award for Best Young Player) had 5 goals.  Pele's own teammate (Jairzinho) had 7 goals.  And West Germany's Gerd Muller had 10 goals in the tournament (more than double Pele's contribution).

Pele's greatness was measured in his consistency over time of being a great player... but he never played in Europe.

Mostly, Pele was VERY FORTUNATE to have played on the greatest teams ever assembled.

Erik Apple - 

I should have known LionSoul is a soccer fan



The bad apple emerges.



Any celebrity stories buddy?



We just want to talk about how cool you are....

DavidYorkshire -
lionsoul - 
-D0DG3R D0GG13- - 
DavidYorkshire -


If you can do it both in the corner and powerful its close to unstoppable.



 



no can defend



If you shoot it like that every time, I can assure you that your penalty success rate would be below 70%.



There is just too much risk when you go for the gold every time with penalty shots.  You are going to kick it over the bar or to the side.



There is a medium risk reward just by hitting it hard and on goal.



Yes that is the point I was making earlier in the thread.  Either very hard, or very accurate.  This example above is just for fun basically.  

there where many attempts that went over the goal post today but they tried.

rekt - 

messi isn't even the greatest Argentinian

 

how can he be the greatest footballer lmao

 

Ronaldo all day



To be fair, most folks don't think that Ronaldo is even the greatest Ronaldo.



How can he be the greatest footballer lmao

Maradona won 2 league titles with Napoli. That should count for something. 

stringtheory -
SpartaKick -
whitesun -
SpartaKick -

He's no Maradonna

Agree, he is much better.

 

Unless Messi can pull off a similar stunt to  'the hand of god' or score the best individual goal in world cup history or win the world cup.. he will never reach Maradonas status. Maradona did all of those things in the same tournament.

Hand of god might be a bit tricky with this new VARS bollocks

Messi is the greatest football player in history easily.

Messi might be the greatest but Maradona is legendary and that's the difference.