As always, looking for some advice. I really like using a low lapel grip for some of my forward throws. Loosen their lapel out of their belt and get a pretty low grip on it so i have some slack with it, then bring my forearm up and across, then under their arm as I wrap in for a morote seio, a seio-toshi(sp?), or tai-otoshi varation from that same grip. Are there any good setups for backward throws(not sure I'm getting that terminology right, but backward as in osoto?) with a low lapel grip. Thanks in advance.
You could possibly work a kouchi gari, especially if you faked/feinted or tried a tai otoshi or seoi nage first to the front.
I think a low grip with a loose gi would be problematical for Osoto, because Osoto depends a lot on getting control of uke's head with the lapel grip. You might be able to push up under his chin somehow with a low and loose lapel grip for Osoto or Ouchi.
That sort of grip is another specialty type grip. You sacrifice control for initial space to move into for the throw.
IMHO, people who grip really low on the lapel dont have a good ability to grip-fight. when somebody grips lower than nipple-level they have no ability to control their opponent's upper body or stop him from getting a vastly superior/dominant position.
it does make throws that use the lapel easier to do, but it gives up so much as far as good positioning and the ability to grip-fight that its really hard to consider worthwhile.
again, thats just IMHO.
Ben- Have to get my kouchi better up to speed, but definately going to try anyhow.
Resnick- Never even considered that yet. I've just been playing with it in fits, so I haven't even tried to work it into my grip fighting in randori yet. That's definately going to suck if that happens, lol
I agree completly with Josh, well said.
I have a question then... without grabbing the lapel below the nipple level, is it possible to do a seoi-otoshi? When I try, there isn't even room enough to wrap my forearm under(without getting my wrist bent backwards pretty good). I guess maybe just switch to tai-otoshi all the time? I just kinda like the surprize factor of them not being able to tell if I'm going for morote seoi, or seoi-otoshi.
you can still do it. there are many different ways of doing a morote-seio type of throw. you can grab the lapel lower, pull the gi out and "cock" the gi up to give you better hand position while having a lower lapel grip.. you could also just learn to do mortoe seio properly instead of trying to wind-in so damn much. morote seio doesnt have to be a huge winding motion-- fact thats about the hardest way to do it as far as your shoulder goes.
you can also do the throw from the same-side grip.
" have a question then... without grabbing the lapel below the nipple level, is it possible to do a seoi-otoshi? When I try, there isn't even room enough to wrap my forearm under(without getting my wrist bent backwards pretty good)."
Yes, it is still possible. You do not have to put your elbow under uke's armpit to do morote seoi or the morote form of seoi otoshi. Turn your arm across his chest instead.
"I guess maybe just switch to tai-otoshi all the time? I just kinda like the surprize factor of them not being able to tell if I'm going for morote seoi, or seoi-otoshi."
There isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. I guess you are talking about the "leg across" type of seoi otoshi with a morote lapel grip?
Tai Otoshi works better with the normal type of lapel grip, the action of the lapel grip is different than seoi otoshi or morote seoi, plus you are not doing the "carrying" action of a seoi nage/otoshi in Tai Otoshi.
definately thanks for the tips guys
Good stuff. Potent!