Lumpini Stadium etc

Songchai's the biggest MT promoter on the planet--a
more benevolent MT version of Don King basically.

He puts on the professional Thai vs. Europe/Japan
fights on the King's Birthday every year...outside
fights that are always amazing. Millions attend and
the crowd is HUGE...

If I had gone to Thailand last time I could have been
ringside, my trainer helped work some of the Sityodtong
fighter's corne

Bryan72- Do u live in Thailand? If so how do u get to find out about these tasty inside info? Oh, one more thing, what kinda show is Songchai's? Weekly MT fights or something?

Heavy Leg...

It's all good. You are right, though, I was out of line with my statements and I sincerely do apologize for them. I didn't stop to think that what I was saying could be interpreted as a personal attack on him.

And yes, I understand that Diesel Noi was "THE" Khun Kao in Thailand. I don't use that screen name to make THAT kind of comparison, as I know that I will never, ever acheive what he did. But, it was the fight nickname that my Muay Thai master gave me. I'm proud that he has given me that name, but I don't intend to appear as though I consider myself in the great Diesel Noi's category.

Actually, a bunch of my fighters and myself are looking for video tapes of his fights so that we can study them. I specialize in the clinch, and I'm trying to get my fighters to do the same. We wish to study his technique to improve even more.

No hard feelings. Feel free to take me to task in the future when I'm a butthead.

(and please don't tell Alex! I don't want to get my ass kicked in the event that I get a chance to meet him! LOL)

Brooks (Khun Kao)

Thanks GoongNoi, and anyone else who responded to the original question. I had to look, but I found some good stuff in there!!!




I could be wrong, but I expect Rajadamnern to beat out Lumpini as the #1 stadium since Songchai jumped ship. I was at Songchais last show at Lumpini this past December. Absolutley packed. I talked to a few people around the stadium, they were pretty surprised that he was leaving and a little disappointed. One thing that did surprise me was that he let some fighters go. Samkor, for instance, was with Songchai for years, and is still a top level fighter. But he was left out in the big switch.

Rajadamnern started to feel the positive effects of having the best Promoter on board almost immediatly. They've had some of their biggest gates in years.

Oh and finally, Songchai will have a weekly televised show from Rajadamnern starting this week, I think. So, those with a local Thai video store, there will be some(hopefully) good stuff on video again.

Awesome Responses Khun Kao,

Damn now THAT'S the Khun Kao I know from every OTHER post but the one in question.:-)Way to go bro!Ego is just excess bagage that holds us down,glad to see you have very little of the bad stuff.

Peace,Love and Brotherhood

In addition I would like to say that I agree with the head leaning forward aspect of the aforementioned Golden Prawn and also the torso lean forward BOTH being bad form-However I have also been taught that any backward lean causes a loss of power and balance. For instance kicks directed straight-up such as between the arm and body to the armpit(hurts like hell!! and causes odd swelling) and a straight punt to the groin.
I am SINCERELY interested in finding out the answer to this question as a new friend and training partner of mine(Pierr Guillet) kicks with some backward lean and STILL has GREAT power.
My MAIN problem with this lean backward is that balance is off which means you can be severely sweept,teeped,posted,or in MMA competitions shot on.You know the old saying about where the head goes...
Also what about the fact that the leg is traveling on a downward trajectory with the shin perpendicular to the femur it is about to land on? ON that kick I have been taught to bend my rear leg and bend at the body so as to DROP as much of my body onto the leg as possible-is this the kick you are referring to(while leaning back)?
By the way Khun Kao I was being truthful when I said I do not know ALex Gong but being a fighter and trainer(I have the opportunity to be training several amatuer fighters and one just turned Pro)I always give the benefit of the doubt to BOTH men in the ring.
By the way my so called "inside" information about Alex having a "bug" was NOT inside to my knowledge-in fact I thought it was widely known as I have seen it discussed else where on an underground thread.

I can also remember the last time I thought a fighter sucked and said so-Tank Abott.But then again I don't even own any fight tapes that aren't of fights in Thailand, so maybe I have been fortunately shielded from "ugly" technique.

While I agree with Heavy Leg in FACT I do NOT agree with him in temperment towards you or your given name,so please in your mind seperate the two.

By the way Khun Kao you get support from me also as you actions following that thread have been nothing short of professional.A 99.9% average in typing good threads is something that may not even exist on this forum...LOL... I know I can't lay claim to one;-)

Oh yes, how rude of me, congratulations on your marriage and on your new life together,to you both.

By the way I would like to make a clarification as to my backround. I do NOT, nor have I ever had the opportunity to train AT a Fairtex facility just BY two Fairtex trainers and even that was only for a year's worth of time - one of the most productive years of my life....

I love that saying about opinions/assholes,so crude yet so effective in translating that essential truth.

So anyone know the reason for champions wearing red shorts in the stadiums? I'll be honest my one TKO(towel thrown in) was while I was wearing red shorts ,so who knows maybe there is something to it(j/k)? But seriously anyone know?

P.S. Also has anyone noticed sometimes how upright some thais are in pics of fights in thailand? I personally believe that it is a simple physics equation that can explain the amount of displacement being proportional to the angle of lean AWAY from the target due to the difference in mass of a lower limb being replaced by that of an upper(in other words when you swing your arm down to develop torque and counterbalance the swing of the leg). I view SOME upward lean on fighters but on others it is exagerrated which I feel to be sub-optimal form(think of a bent axle versus a straight one and keep in mind that a kick is landing with an almost downward angle to take advantage of gravity).

Damn I should be studying for a BioChem test but I find my major sometimes gets in the way of majoring, he he he.(Kinesiology/Biomechanics).

Peace,Love and Brotherhood

Judah Ciervo

Fellas, I trained at Fairtex for about 6 months. Here are some of my impressions. Alex and the rest of the Thai trainers are super cool human beings. Bunkerd, Jongsanan, Ganyao are truly humble masters of their trade. Obviously Alex owns the two gyms and teaches the Wednesday night advanced class. He also has the personality and looks to take him on Walker, Texas Ranger. But let's be real. Jongsanan would mop the floor w/him. I found it very amusing to see Alex using Jongsanan in his Black Belt article. But this is all politics. In the world of martial arts, the best guys aren not given their due publicity. I think Khun Kao, in his love for the art, was just stating his dissappointment considering the hype around Alex. No big deal. I know I appreciate his informative comments!

Hey Handzocdp - I could not agree with you more. Those guys are some truly great and humble guys. Yes, I found as well that the Black Belt Mag article was kind of a dis to Jongsanan since Jongsanan still one of the top MT fighters in the world. To have Jongsanan's name put in anonymity as Alex's partner really upset since he could annihilate him without trying. Alex himself would be the first to admit that he isn't even on the same planet as someone like him. To Mr. Kao - yes, I know that Diesel Noi nickname was 'Knees that Pierce the Sky'. But, to fans announcers, and promoters, he was the 'Khun Kao' in Thailand at the height of his fame. I just wouldn't be so vain. It's also an opinion as well and last time I checked people were entitled to them - including your criticism of Alex Gong and my rebuttal. So, no hard feelings k?Gotta train, later................

Lumpini is great, but all of Songchai's fighters--many of whom are some of the top guys around--now fight out of Ratchadamern. I think in the next few years you'll see the two stadiums reaching parity as well as the quality of fighters.

Beev--Samart has LONG since retired, and while he had done the occassional exhibition fights a few years back I don't think he even does that anymore.

Brooks--hey, different instructors teach different things, and I have always been taught to kick more upright, except when attacking the legs. Done correctly you really don't expose yourself to a counter.


Thanks. We have to remember that I saw a taped fight. I know the fight was relatively recent, but thats about it. I also had not read or heard any other info regarding the match, so I was in the dark about what happened behind the scenes.

It was also brought up that I erroneously accredited Bunkerd as being Alex's trainer. I made an assumption regarding that because I saw Bunkerd working his corner. (at least it looked like Bunkerd) And we all know what happens when you assume...

And I can appreciate being railed into a fight you're not ready to take. Though it didn't happen to me personally, it happened to one of our fighters who was railroaded into taking an American Kickboxing match even though he was suffering from a hernia.

I will try to do a post discussing leaning and kicking a little later today or this week.


I appreciate your understanding. I think a number of us were "shooting from the hip", so to say. I did not stop to consider that my comments would be taken so harshly, nor did I stop to reconsider what I was writing. I was just running my damn mouth after seeing a sub-par performance.

Hell, I thought the same thing of Orono, the Black Superman. He was sucking ass that fight also. The difference in my statements about him was because I have seen him fight many, many times before and know that he deserves his reputation. But I was overly harsh on Alex because I was told just prior to the fight what a "superstar" he was supposed to be.

Well, enough of this, the conversation is getting old. I will make sure in the future to mind what I say, and not allow my emotions to get away from me.

I appreciate everyones support and understanding. I promise to be better.

Brooks (Khun Kao)

Bollard, at the moment I will be starting University in a couple of months and will only be able to train twice a week at the most, so it looks like I will be fighting very little over the next 3-4 years, hopefully I willbe able to get 1 fight in each year.

I think I may have heard of Lee Cox, but I dont follow the Full Contact circuit, so I dont really know any of the fighters on that format. Who has he fought?

My last opponent was Craig Booth from Warrington KckBoxing Studio (Muay Thai gym run by Neil Holden, one of Skens students), maybe youve heard of him?

I train with Jhon Steele (another one of Skens students) in Stoke on Trent. How long have you trained Thai?

For one thing - Bunkerd is not Alex's trainer. Ganyao is his trainer. Also, he did beat Duane Ludwig. I have trained and sparred with Alex and he is pretty damn good from where I stood.

Two - Alex is also running the Fairtex camp in S.F. and it is a huge job. I have run around with Alex for one day and it was essentially taking care of one fire after another. He does not have the luxury of just sleeping and training like he did when I roomed with him in AZ, so I agree that he is not now as sharp as he was 3-4 years ago. But, trying to take care of 2 gyms, 500+ students, and an equipment store is time consuming. If Alex sucks so much, why don't you challenge him for one of his belts?


Khun Kao,

I have read and enjoyed many of your posts,so I was quite surprised when I read the one above insulting Alex Gong.I have been fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to train with two trainers from the Fairtex camp when it was stationed in Arizona-Sakasem Kanthawong and Andy Russell.I was told about a bout between Andy and Alex that ended in Alex being KO'd in the third round but even when this story was mentioned it was NOT mentioned in a disrespectful way in fact it was expressed to me as being an accomplishment,which is the way most worthy fighters would view a KO against one another.
So seeing as you have neither fought nor even sparred against Alex please do not critisize him.
Not that any of you will believe this but Alex was sick with a "bug" and didn't even want to take the fight knowing that he would not give his best(which is what every worthy fighter wishes to give)but politics and promotions being what they are the fight happened.
Now I neither know Alex Gong personally nor have I even spoken to him but when he is spoken of in respectful terms by people I respect then I tend to follow suit until I have been given reason to do otherwise.
And yes, Heavy Leg is correct in stating that Ganyao is his trainer.
So having countered you on two of your three points of error, I am curious as to why you perceive the Golden Prawn to be a weak kick?
By the way I have neither the years of experience in Muay Thai that you have, nor a loyalty to it as an art exclusively.But I am a very fast learner and consider my opinions to be as worthwhile as anyone elses(in other words they are of no real value, just that which is held by the beholder).

Peace,Love and Brotherhood

Judah Ciervo

No kidding, some guys are way to harsh. I can understand some of the posts, after all they DO or did train at Fairtex. Without loyalty, where would we be? ;)

I'm glad that little spat appears to be over.
Let's be good to each other from now on, huh?
To address one of the original points, fighting in
Thailand has several different "ranking" systems, but
the most important is:

Stadium rankings. Mega - important and more
prestigious than a world title. Yes - there are many
sanctioning bodies in Kickboxing / Muay Thai and there
are many "world champions" around the globe in the
different weight divisions.
BUT there is only one Lumpini stadium. Every fighter wants to be champion of his weight division at the most
prestigious stadium. Each weight division has rankings
for the stadium title and the most competitive weight
divisions are around 110 - 125 pounds due to the
naturally smaller build of the Thais. There are other
important stadiums also.

I once saw a WKA world Muay Thai champion (From North
America - Mel Murray I believe) Fight a ranked
Thai fighter from Lumpini stadium and he was absolutely
torn to shreds and had the crap belted out of him. This
highlights the worth of a world title won outside
Thailand angainst non-Thai opposition. Hey - much
respect to Mel Murray, but he was soundly beaten.

Money makes the world go around and ringside betting
generates a fighter's worth and reputation in Thailand.
If they like the way you fight they will bet on you and if you win they will like you and you will likely get more chances to fight. The entire professional fight scene in Thailand has a very strong organised crime element. You could say that the "mob" runs the show but I would never say that!

Fighters start very young and they don't fight just every month - they will fight every week if they can, more often is even better. Thais do not spar when they
train because they are fighting all the time - they
save it for the ring.

It is not uncommon for a Thai to have clocked up over 100 pro fights by age 18. In fact they don't even bother keeping count - which is why you will often be
told a fighter has had "around 75 fights" and has
a record of "about 62 - 13". This is why their body
is spent by age 25 commonly, and long term brain
damage is not uncommon in career fighters.


Right on Judah....

I really didn't want to say too much to this supposed 'Dr. Knee' (yes, Khun Kao I know what it means in Thai) person. BTW - it is a total joke to plaguerize Diesel Noi's nickname - I wouldn't dream of trying to even mention my name in the same sentence with a legend such as him.

Next point - anyone who gets into the ring to fight Muay Thai commands total respect from me. Fighting Muay Thai is like getting into the ring and getting hit with a pool cue for 5 rounds. Your body does not take to it too well - especially for the days following the fight. It is so easy to criticize - especially if you have never been there.

Mr. Knee - from looking at your posts and the number of posts that you put up - I wonder if you even find the time to train with all the time you spend authoring on this site.....

OK guys, my apologies. My statements concerning Alex Gong's fight in Las Vegas were harsh, but please allow me to explain myself:

I got carried away with my disappointment in Alex's performance, and I apologize that I came across so insulting towards him. I have no doubt that he is a great guy and that he is a great fighter.

He is obviously better than I am because, hell, he is a pro fighter and current champion, whereas I am a keyboard warrior and training amateur fighters.

Let me clarify what my true intent was...

I was very disappointed in Alex's performance.


1. He was out of shape. Yes, I realize that he is in better shape right now than I am, but he went into the ring and was sucking wind after round 1.

2. He *appeared* to have underestimated his opponent. He was fighting an up-and-comer who did not have an established reputation yet. Alex seemed to be over-confident and not respecting his opponents skills, and it cost him the match.

3. He WAS kicking incorrectly! I am sorry, but it is true. He was bowing his head FORWARD as he kicked! As I have stated, when you kick you should lean your upper body AWAY from your kicking leg so that the mass/momentum of your upper body transitions into your kicking legs power. When you bow forward with your kick, you are putting your head inside your opponents punching range, which is a VERY BAD TACTIC!

*-every gym is different, but I have seen Fairtex fighters before, and I don't recall them bowing their heads in to kick...

Now, this is the one and only time I have seen Alex fight. So everything that I just said is based on this one fight and this one fight only.

Had I known that many of you PERSONALLY knew this guy, and I'm sure many of you are actually his friends, I would have been more tactful with my words. Believe it or not, I was not intending to insult Alex the person, but comment rather candidly on a performance that was obviously sub-par.

Do I think I would have done better? I have no fucking idea. I was not the one in the ring. But I also am no longer a fighter, so its a moot point.

And, consider this. I don't know Alex. Have never met him and I had only heard of him PASSINGLY before I witnessed this match.

Now, let's all be honest with each other for a minute. How many of you have watched a professional fighting event, or ANY sport for that matter, and have commented that such-and-such professional athelete or fighter sucks? The same thing that some of you have just jumped down my fucking throat for applies to you. Do you think you could get in there and do better? Hell, no! Do we still voice our thoughts that we think that so-and-so sucks? Hell YES!

Even more, did me, or anyone else watching the fight without the "inside scoop" know that he took that fight while sick? No!

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. That was my opinion based on that ONE FIGHT! And, you're only as good as your last fight. I got KO'd my last fight, so I guess I really suck.

Sheesh! Give me a break folks.

Khun Kao Charuad; SuriyaSak/SitSuriya Muay Thai

ps- Heavy Leg, if you don't like my comments about Alex, fine. I didn't mean to insult him personally and I'm sorry that it was taken that way. I was being harsh, but again, I was not meaning it to be taken personally. As far as my nickname, I did NOT, repeat NOT steal Diesel Noi's name for myself. I was GIVEN my name by my instructor. Thailand has had many, many, many fighters named Khun Kao, I just happen to be an American who has earned that name also. AND, though I don't remember the FULL Thai nickname for Diesel Noi, it translated in English to "King of Sky Piercing Knees". My fighting nickname is Khun Kao Charuad, which translates to "King of Rocket Knees". There was also another fighter named "King of Stabbing Knees". So, as you can see, I did not "steal" Diesel Noi's name, I share PART of it.

Sheesh, not going a little far are we guys.

Khun Kao, don't sweat it brother, you've contributed stacks to this forum and we all appreciate it.

We all have bad days, me I run my head when I'm drinking and playing on the UG.

Don't let them get you down.

Lets cut Khun a break if that is the worst thing he says about a fighter then he is a better man than me.

Go train, have fun, and beat on the ones you love, sparring partners only.