Excellent site Jason Couch! Is that your site?
good luck brother!!! i'm sure you will pass with flying colors!
thanks for kind words on site. again, i don't deserve it. i have to update it more and of course, not sastisfied with it yet.
oh yeah, sovann,
some recent posts on ED is going over the inside deflection vs #1 debate again. some of the material shown on marc mcfann's stickgrappling was off of a cooperative caveman and you would do the inside deflection. personally after watching the DB vids and going at it with my training partner 50%-75%, i ended using the DB roof as opposed to the inside deflection. i do not train with live swords, which is what the inside deflection is better suited for supposedly, so training with stick, i treat the stick as a stick and not as a substitute for sword. DB roof is safer to do IMHO.
and i make a distinction between the DB roof block as opposed to standard FMA roof block. std. FMA roof block is horiz above your head like this -------
whereas the DB roof block for right hander is 45 degree angled out with tip facing earth and punyo facing heaven like /
anyway, concentrating my stickgrappling training based off of DB roof or DB umbrella (mirror image of DB roof \ ) and not inside deflections.
The Jack Dempsey book is great, but a little beyond
the pugilism era. Here's a link to John L. Sullivan's
book on boxing (printed around turn of century) that
was scanned in:
http://keith.martialartsman.net/gallery/galleryMain.html
Jason
sovann,
thanks for the props, i do not deserve it IMO. it's the MAists who took the time to post the incredible info they share. most ppl say they print it or save to HD, but i took it a step further. nothing much.
damn, i forgot about that and actually it was Marc McFann's vid and not Terry Gibson. when i posted that, there seemed to be no interest on ED. did i post "branch disarm"? if so, i do not recall what it is. have to watch again. and yes, i do not have time to train that stuff too. would love to though. i know branch armlocks as in branch up, branch down, branch straight. but not branch disarm. u r not training FMA now? i thought u still did in addition to the grappling et al u did. u emailed me the stick choke a few months ago.
the reason i say it's not ready, is the earlier pages i put up is not consistent with the layout of the newer template i use with the navigation links. i figured one of these days, i will go back to add an index to each page, update the nav link bar, etc. but as i have time to work on it, i figured, might as well put up more info instead of working on old pages.
SG,
I've had a serrada instructor show me roof block like \ - tip up, punyo down. But he was very much treating his stick as a blade.
Yeah, a few months ago I was in the mood to swing the sticks after dusting off my Dog Bro tapes. So I hooked up for a private with an instructor in my area who I connected with from the pekiti website. He taught me some Balintawak progression for 5 angles of attack. Good stuff.
Yo, any SCA players here?
hey Jason, long time, how goes the BAR?
thanks for the link.
Ye Lunatic,
yes, excellent site. it's Keith Mayers and not Jason's.
sovann,
OIC on the FMA privates. i'm working on something and when it's done, i will email you.
re: serrada roof - i must admit i do not know all FMA, know of serrada and some terms like lock and block. seen JC Cabeiro's vid, and on DB vid saw Angel Cabales (awesome!). did not know they use the term roof for that block. maybe i'm picturing it wrong: stick is in right hand and you tip is up and punyo is down and it's \ blocking your left side or right side?
and of course, "block" within FMA context is relative as sometimes it's a counterattack or very aggressive block.
stick - i know you said DB thats why i said marc denny probally got it wrong.
The technique is neither a "FANG" nor a CHOKE. The technique is actually call APILER (pronounced 'ah – peel – are'), a Filipino word meaning pin (as in safety pin) or needle. Marc Denny's fang drives the punyo into your neck and you tap do to the pain. the actual real version of this technique is to apply the punyo into the wind pipe. The "FANG" technique comes to us from the Villabrille system of Filipino Martial arts. To fang means to hit your opponents hand. Just as if you remove the fang from the snake it cannot harm you, so to if you remove your opponents hands/arms he cannot harm you.
Nice thread ttt!
Here's a question: Which is the older school, Shinkage Ryu or Kashima Shinryu? I'm sure we have some japanese swordsmanship experts in here. Oh, and to prove you are not guessing you'd better give an approximate date of founding.
Tuli's Tooth... "Vasco de Gamma or another Spanish/Portuguese explorer was killed by a Phillipino king I think. It was sword against sticks."
No, Vasco Da Gama died of disease in India in 1525. I believe you are thinking of Magellan, who did not die of sword against stick. We went over it earlier in this thread.
sreiter..."well bruce lee found that the strong hand lead was more effective. why then do boxers remain in a weak hand lead for so long? "
I am not sure what you are getting at. Bruce lee like the lead hand for himself. One reason was because his brother was a good fencer and he supposedly got a lot of ideas from watching him fence. Lee wasn't a boxer and wasn't thinking of sport. He even talks in his notes about thinking of your lead hand's fingers as the western fencer's sword and the target as the opponents eyes. The lead hand worked for Bruce and for the type of fighting he had in mind. There are different ways to fight and that was one that I am sure worked for him.
sreiter..."i never said the spanish couldnt fight however i do think the fillipinos where better trained as a whole"
How can you know that? If the filipino's were better trained, then why did the Spanish occupy their land for 350 years?
sreiter...- "[regarding the Spaniards]the noblity were really the only ones highly trained in the art swordsmanship other than the occasional bad ass street dude. "
That is incorrect. It is well known that many civilians all throughout Europe, including peasants, artisans, and merchants practiced combative arts. There were many sword fighting guilds all over Europe that consisted entirely of lower class civilians. Fighting manuals were published widely in many countries and were readily available throughout Europe. People carried a sword, a staff or at least a dagger with them everywhere they went for self defense. Soldiers lives depended on whether or not they could use their weapon in hand to hand combat. Mercanaries and men-at-arms constantly trained in wrestling, dagger, sword and pole arms. In fact, in England there was a civilian swordfighting guild called "The London Masters of Defence" where it took 14 YEARS to become a master.
sreiter..."the military, just like our own military is trained to be effective in the most efficient manner. they dont try to make the soilders olympic grade shooters, just good enough to get the job done. and the hand to hand is miminal a few weeks at best, compaired to a martial artist who devotes years or a life time to training. the fillipino's trained like martial artists "
The Spanish military didn't just draft young fools and give them a 2 week crash course in swordplay, arquebus and pole arms. As I said, people's lives relied on the sword, if you were in the Spanish military in the 16th century you can bet you that would have seen action, whether it had been in the Netherlands, Mexico, the Phillipines, or in shipboard battles on the high seas. If you didn't know how to use your weapon, you were dead. Swordplay isn't like firing an m-16 a2 at a target. It is "hand to hand" combat and takes years to learn. People practiced all the time. Generally a soldiers life was simple: When you weren't off fighting, you were either training hard or whoring and drinking. We are talking about a time when all of Europe was constantly at war with one another and self defense meant being able to effectively fight hand to hand. Even if you look at some 16th century European fighting manuals, you will see that many civilians trained like martial artists.
In fact in the early 16th century, Henry VIII made is MANDATORY for all citizens to practice archery every day. Citizens were required to "use and exercyse shootyng in longbowes, and also have a bowe and arrowes contynually" in the house. Fathers were required by law to purchase bows and arrows for their sons between the age of 7 and 14 and to train them in longbow use. Renaissance Europe wasn't candyland.
Jason Couch, good question! Thanks! Yes, Dempsey wrote his book in 1950, beyond the pugilism era, but he started fighting out of the tail end of it and his instructors all learned from a long line of pugilists. Thanks for the Sullivan link! I notice that a lot of what Sullivan saysgoes right along with what Dempsey says. Their styles look the same, except Sullivan's book obviously has more holds.
Jason Couch--you've totally stumped me as to the first wrestling manual in English... I can't wait to find out the answer.
It is true that Dempsey's book is "a little beyond the pugilism era", but the fact that he was teaching the vertical fist-type punch is fascinating. Dempsey also had some interesting things to say in Ch. 3: "And I recalled the details of my later post-graduate courses in fighting from Doc Kearns and Trainer Deforest, one of the best instructors in the world. Deforest's career went clear back to the days of Peter Jackson and the London Prize Ring Rules.
...You must remember that when I fought Willard in 1919, it was only twenty-seven years after Jim Corbett had beaten John L. Sullivan at New Orleans in the first championship fight with big gloves. While I was coming up, the technique of the old masters was still fresh in the minds of fighting men."
The vertical fist, the reference to Peter Jackson, and that last statement, "...the technique of the old masters was still fresh in the minds of fighting men," are all rather revealing. Good stuff.
I'll have to check out that site.
sreiter--
Bruce Lee, while undoubtedly an extremely talented martial artist, is neither the first nor last word on punching. You say that he found the strong hand lead more effective--well, it would probably be more accurate to say that he found the strong hand lead more effective for him, and his approach to fighting.
Again, the whole boxing/FMA story sounds totally suspect. Boxers already knew how to punch effectively. Very effectively, in fact.
sreiter = pls note i prefaced all my terms with a DB indicating the DB usage. i learned them the way you posted but the DB used them in a different way.
please go over the differences between FMA fang and DB fang. i'm not sure if i know it. what i noted was on the vid, the fang was taught one way and maybe it has evolved or with influence from Dr. Gyi and/or others, the fang now is a spearing type "choke".
TIA.
Jason,
i'm guessing it's something on cornish-devonshire wrestling? don't know the title or year. or was it something on glima?
TrueFightScholar,
damn, i knew it could not have been katana :-)
I'm turning in so I'll answer now in case this thread
slips in the night.
Q- 1st Published English Wrestling Manual?
A- AFAIK, it was "The Inn Play or Cornish-Hugg
Wrestler" by Sir Thomas Parkyns. Published first in
1713.
A transcription of the 1723 version, IIRC, is
available here:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4933/westernartsparkyns.html
So yes, it was Cornish-Devon, very good. The In-Play
being Cornish, the Out-Play Devon. First english
wrestling manual with illustrations wasn't until the
19th century.
Jason
thx - i kept refreshing hoping for the answer.
i'm gonna save this thread!
sreiter,
thanks for info on the fang. i think in ED, Eric Knaus posted that he was never taught the fang and he discovered it while fighting.
i have a q. for you: what is the paper cutter stickchoke? pls see the following URL for what i thought it was:
http://www.martialartskoncepts.com/html/techniqueofthemonth/techniqueaug99.html
a friend much more experienced than me commented: "If you have mount on someone, place a hand on one trap, and lower you forearm into their windpipe...kind of like a paper cutter! ;-)
The thing he shows as a paper cutter is a scissors
(gunting) Dinge. Or 'X' choke."
TIA.
Here's an easy one for you mma enthusiasts-
Q: What was the pankratiast Arrichion most famous for?
Jason
here's one:
with the advent of technology, specifically email and internet, many of the various factions of WCK have interchanged ideas, history, techniques etc.
what is the origin(s) of the name of the style "wing chun"?
p.s. if you read COMPLETE WING CHUN, you will know the answer(s).