Manager explains Palhares subs

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                                Manager explains Palhares subs

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                        <a href="/go=news.detail&gid=449243" ><img class="photo" src="http://img.mixedmartialarts.com/method=get&rs=60&q=75&x=73&y=24&w=310&h=165&ro=0&s=rousimar-palhares-12-18-2014-0-29-45-127.jpg" /></a>



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                    <p>There is a common misconception among casual fans of mixed martial arts that a submission should be applied to get a tap, not joint damage. The fact is, a submission need not be applied any more gently than a knockout. Further, fighters are instructed to stop not when the opponent taps, but when the referee tells them to stop.</p>

The signature case of this was when Murilo Bustamante fought Matt Lindland at UFC 37 in 2002. Lindland tapped and Bustamante released hold, but it was missed by the referee. Bustamante ended up having to tap Lindland twice.

Bustamante learned from the experience, and went on to train Rousimar Palhares, and teach his student that you don't release a hold when the opponent taps, you let go when the ref says to. This lesson is repeated by the referee to the fighter back stage at big shows - "release the hold when I tell you to, not when your think your opponent taps."

Palhares successfully defended his WSoF welterweight title last weekend, tapping Jon Fitch. Palhares held the leg lock for a fraction of second past being told to stop by the referee, and there were calls from some quarters for punishment, or, bizarrely, even banning.

In his latest article for MMAJunkie, Alex Davis defends Palhares. Davis is a former national Judo champion in Brazil and the US, a co-founder of ATT, the manger to a number of top fighters including Antonio Silva, Edson Barboza, Thiago Tavares, Fabio Maldonado, and Palhares, and one of the most principled figures in our sport.

Typically, a fighter does not want to lose, and he will only tap once the hyperextension and, consequently, the injury occurs.

And I will expand here and enlighten the ignorant – the majority of the submissions we see on TV cause injuries because of this hesitation; they are just not as graphically impressive! The injuries caused by Rousimar’s submissions have already occurred when the referee steps in. The same thing happens with chokes. Anybody here notice how many times chokes put guys to sleep? It’s the very same phenomenon!

These are facts of this sport. They are facts which the casual fans – and I will include the majority of the journalists who have turned into specialists in only a few months in this category – do not understand!

To see Rousimar crank on someone’s leg and hyperextend it is not pretty – not even to me. It is disturbing, to say the least. This man is extremely powerful; he is built like a vice. He is also extremely precise in his technique. But he is doing nothing wrong. He is going out there to win the fight, just like anyone else. He is not malicious or a monster, like some here would have us believe.

This is a sport based on causing damage to one’s opponent. It’s the reality of the sport, and the guys that go in there to fight are perfectly aware of this. Broken noses, broken jaws and huge gashes are also part of MMA, along with hyperextensions. And to tell Rousimar to go easy on his submissions is like telling Mark Hunt to go softer on his knockouts

Rousimar is doing nothing wrong. He has been victim of the fact that he looks like something out of a horror movie and cannot speak English, which turns him into a prime target for people out there looking to increase traffic on their websites. Everyone wants to read about how evil Rousimar Palhares is: He is so bad that he got cut from the UFC because his badness went viral!

I will give all the fruit cakes out there voicing their feelings on Rousimar and his submissions this: They are not pretty. But they are part of the sport, as are all the other harmful and brutal techniques used in MMA! As I said before, this is a sport based on inflicting damage to your opponent. And if you cannot deal with that, you should be watching something else.

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I've always agreed with this. Palhares does his job perfectly. It's cage fighting ffs. Don't expect to come out injury free if a guy tries to make you tap by tearing at your acl Phone Post 3.0

Well said Phone Post 3.0

My name is ThirdEye0pen and I approve this message. Phone Post 3.0

Felice held her armbar longer than he held that knee bar on Fitch. People just want to crucify him any chance they get. If your scared to play the leg lock game tap when he gets ahold of your leg. It's not some mythical unbeatable attack, Ask Belcher. Phone Post 3.0

Which would be a completely reasonable and logical explanation in most circumstances. Paul Harris, though, is not most circumstances. He's has a history of doing this.

That's nice. He still held it too long.

I regret nothing Phone Post 3.0

Pessimist_Pete - That's nice. He still held it too long.

I regret nothing Phone Post 3.0

Just like guys who fight him should tap before anything really starts to hurt given his reputation, refs should be all over the fighters when they are fighting for leglocks given his reputation as well.

Palhares will simply crank on the leg until the ref pulls him off. Which is complete bullshit, but technically legal under the rules. It's the same as a fighter constantly throwing a few late strikes until the ref jumps in to stop him.

Has Paul Harris been a victim of fake-tapping? If not I don't see him being able to use that as an excuse for not letting go when the guy taps.

For guys who have been a victim to it, I can see why they would have a chip on their shoulder and not let go of a sub until a ref physically touches you.

As far as the Fitch fight goes, I didn't see anything wrong with him not letting go of the sub...he seemed to let go pretty timely...but in the past he has definitely held on far to long and whether or not he caused extra damage due to it is speculative but still it's fucked up to do.

He is like a split second late on his releases at most. The guy should be in the UFC still, he's a beast and one of the most intriguing/entertaining fighters to watch.

wow, there are some butt hurt people in here.

I agree with the article and his subs.

There's no difference in this and a guy knocking someone out, and then getting 2-3 extra shots in when it's obvious his oppenent is out. He swings away until the ref has to jump between the guy so he'll stop hitting his opponent. It happens allllllllllllllll the time and no one cries about it. Hendo knocked Bisping out cold and it looked like he came off the top rope to land a completely unnecessary strike and no one said a word. In fact, people made memes and gifs and got satisfaction out of seeing Bisping get fucked up.

Paul Harris holds subs until the ref jumps between them. It's how subs are supposed to be done. Phone Post 3.0

I feel some of his subs have been held late, but the one against Fitch did not look bad to me. I've become a fan of Palhares over the last few years. An unbelievable talent. Phone Post 3.0

A_Butler - I agree with the article and his subs.

There's no difference in this and a guy knocking someone out, and then getting 2-3 extra shots in when it's obvious his oppenent is out. He swings away until the ref has to jump between the guy so he'll stop hitting his opponent. It happens allllllllllllllll the time and no one cries about it. Hendo knocked Bisping out cold and it looked like he came off the top rope to land a completely unnecessary strike and no one said a word. In fact, people made memes and gifs and got satisfaction out of seeing Bisping get fucked up.

Paul Harris holds subs until the ref jumps between them. It's how subs are supposed to be done. Phone Post 3.0
This. Bunch of crybabies. Ridiculous. Watch golf instead. Phone Post 3.0

He has been late in the past, but I see nothing with the Fitch sub.

Fitch knew what was coming but he decided to risk it.


Ttt Phone Post

Nice to see people scared of a submission artist again like they are of KO artists. If someone like Palhares or Mir gets a hold of your limb you better be ready to tap quickly. Don't wait until full extension.

triso - Nice to see people scared of a submission artist again like they are of KO artists. If someone like Palhares or Mir gets a hold of your limb you better be ready to tap quickly. Don't wait until full extension.

Agreed, Paul Harris is basically the only guy going for leg subs right now. When's the last time we saw a guy in the UFC get a leg sub that wasn't Paul Harris? I honestly have no idea. He's like the last of a dying breed.

mdrndaysamurai - 
A_Butler - I agree with the article and his subs.

There's no difference in this and a guy knocking someone out, and then getting 2-3 extra shots in when it's obvious his oppenent is out. He swings away until the ref has to jump between the guy so he'll stop hitting his opponent. It happens allllllllllllllll the time and no one cries about it. Hendo knocked Bisping out cold and it looked like he came off the top rope to land a completely unnecessary strike and no one said a word. In fact, people made memes and gifs and got satisfaction out of seeing Bisping get fucked up.

Paul Harris holds subs until the ref jumps between them. It's how subs are supposed to be done. Phone Post 3.0
This. Bunch of crybabies. Ridiculous. Watch golf instead. Phone Post 3.0


Everyone complains about unnecessary shots after the bell all the time on here.

I know many people who have trained regularly with Palhares and they all say the same thing as Alex Davis--He is an incredibly nice guy and doesn't got out of his way to hurt anyone, but he is savagely efficient with his leg locks (and other attacks). The leglock game is something that goes from 0-90 very fast. Meaning you can feel not in danger and then have an injury occur incredibly quickly.