Prof, no sweat my friend.
I would subject any vision or revelation to the test of the scriptures. Paul wrote a letter to a group of believers he had previously converted. He said, "If I or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel, let him be accursed."
He said if he himself, came back or they saw a supernatural being that was teaching them something then what he had taught them earlier...it's a lie.
Paul was a pharisee who wrote all of his teachings in the context of the scriptures. His words were considered scripture and he recognized other apostles and the OT as scripture.
I find that it is biblically illiterate people who tend to be susceptible to cults and fallacy of thinking.
Prof, no sweat my friend.
Mel is definitely out of his mind at this point--I, too, am looking forward to the movie, but I gotta question his rationality on some level.
If he honestly believes that all non-Catholics are going to Hell, I wonder how he feels about the paradox concerning the pagan-derived aspects of his own faith, like praying to Saints, etc...
He doesn't believe that all non-Catholics are going to Hell.
Yeah Mel's beliefs were mistated!
we roman catholic have many very old misunderstood practices.
saints/mary are venerated and honored but NOT worshipped.just as people here ask others to pray for them,others pray to saints/mary as they are powerful examples of God's grace and are already united with Him.
this is not in ANYWAY intended to replace Jesus position as "the one mediator between God and man" tm 1:2-5.
praying to saint's /mother mary is a practice from 1st century christianity.
also,our statues,crosses,stain glass, etc are no more iconic than your picture of your family,they are simply meant to be reminders of His place in our world.
also rooster,as a catholic i DO NOT believe [nor do i know others that do either] that just believing in God necessarily allows me entry into heaven.
mt7:21"not everyone who says Lord,Lord,will enter the kingdom,but only the one who does the will of my father"
we follow as it say's in jam 2:14-24"a man is justified by works not faith alone".
i know many wonderful examples of christian life who see this differently and i would NEVER put myself above them and i have seen the passages that tell them this,however i feel what i do [with God's grace ]not what i say ,better demonstrates my faith.
This is a topic of conversation that I find really interesting--especially in light of Mel's upcoming movie.
For those of us who do believe, we must remember that JC called for ONE Church. We've been bogged down by so much in-fighting over technique when we should be focusing on substance.
I dunno, maybe I read a different Bible, but as far as I'm concerned as long as a person believes that Jesus Christ is God, and accepts JC as his/her Lord and Savior than it's all good...case closed, period, end of all this B.S. over if we "believe" or "practice" the doctrine of Roman Catholics, Baptists, Evangelical, Episcopelian, Lutheran, etc., etc.
ONE God, ONE faith
I personally agree w/ you evilmonk.I am a Protestant and believe that anybody who truly believes that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior,the son of God,the Alpha and Omega,etc.,are in the same boat whether we know it or not.Like I said above,my mother's side of my family are very hardcore German Catholics.They do not believe that protestants are going to Heaven.Different strokes I guess...
BTW,there are 7 churches.Read Revelation.
GRYAN,praying to saint's /mother mary is a practice from 1st century christianity.Perhaps you could elaborate on this?Praying to Saints is apparently contradictory to the Bible's teachings, though I admittedly cannot quote a pertinent pasage in this case.I always viewed the Catholic Church's traditions regarding praying to the Saints and Mary as one of the early Church's "compromises" in regards to converting pagan populations. If I am incorrect there, please let me know.Peace, TFS
In regards to some of the traditions of the Catholic church I think it is interesting to compare then to the traditions of the orthodox church.
It fascinates me to see their take and view on many of the same traditions.
Both the Catholic church and the orthodox church have alot in common but because of division between the too, due alot to east - west difference, there are some difference.
I think those who are really interested in Christian history in regards to various traditions such examine and study them by looking at the history of BOTH the catholic and orthodox church collectively.
It amazes me that among protestants there is alot of mistrust and resentment as well as misunderstanding toward Catholics BUT hardly any toward orthodox. I think this is because Protestant and the Protestant movement, for the most part historical branch out from Catholics and Catholism and not orhtodox Christianity. On top of that there isn't presently or historically and sizeable Protestant Christian population that live next to any sizeable Orthodox population.
You make a good point. But would go further and say that some of the traditions in the Catholic Church are a response to similar traditions in the Orthodox church which are understood, interpreted and view somewhat differently. I think it is a Western Church (Catholic) and Eastern Chruch (Orthodox) thing. I mean in regards to origin and history of various traditions.
At one time the traditions may have been compromise (or better stated tolerance) in appeal to both Jewish and pagan population in regards to already existing traditions in those populations (Romans 14:1-23 seems to give such insight). But I think as time went on certain church authorities had different views and opinions on these traditions and their place in worship which was ultimately decided upon by the governing church authority and it happen that the western church and the eastern church had different views and opinions on them.
I think most Protestant don't many of the traditions of seen in Catholism because obviously these traditions became apart of the many thing in which Protestant protested against in the Catholic church.
I always felt if one wants to really understand Christian history they must look at the history of Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant as a whole and collectively.
inscription's in roman catacomb's show early christian's honored ,prayed for and asked for prayer[to GOD on their behalf] from their deceased relatives.
in addition to referring to special examples of God's grace such as peter,paul,steven,mother theresa etc.saints is also a term used to describe not only those united with God but also us members of His church here on earth.i myself would be pretty reluctant to refer to myself as any kind of saint .however paul at times called his fellow followers saints.
their are a number of examples of paul asking others to pray for him. col4:3;rom 15:30-32;2 th3:1.these are NOT scriptural references of paul asking those WITH God to pray for him ,only refers to those here on earth.
certainly many people have asked others to pray for them.would not asking for those who are united with God to pray for us be much the same? because that is what we are really talking about,asking those powerful examples of God's grace to pray to Him for us.
i myself do not do this ,but if others choose to it does not contradict scripture.i hope this answers some of your questions.
evilmonk ,i agree with you that is important to not get caught up in what are really minor practices,i just wanted to respond to TFS comment about "pagan derived aspects" of my church.it is not my intent to go back and forth in some kind of scripture war.
i enjoy reading the posts of many on here,and feel there are many rock solid christians here.i hope no one asks me any more questions because i suck at typing/punctuation/etc and the above represents a couple hrs work ;)