If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.
Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.
i guess that goes back to the initial question that i had - does the win bonus mean more than the victory itself. I know that it depends on the individual situation, but a fighters record means a lot and a loss regardless of whether your opposition missed weight is still a loss
Also in that scenario, the guy that missed weight still gets his show money in full. However, he’s still getting his salary cut in half. I do agree with losing 50 percent or more of your purse if you miss weight.
Are you asking if fighter A (didn’t miss weight) getting half of fighter B’s salary is more beneficial to them than the risk of losing to a guy with a clear advantage? I mean you sort of answered your own question there but yeah, it definitely depends on the guy. I think the vast majority of fighters accept fights when the other guy misses weight. Probably because they need the money or they just want to make their training camp worth it, or both. Every fighter knows if and when they accept, there’s a risk of loss. To them I don’t know if there’s much of a difference between losing to a guy that missed weight, and losing to somebody that made weight.
If someone misses weight they should lose the win bonus.
Even if they win the fight, they don't get the win bonus.
i guess that goes back to the initial question that i had - does the win bonus mean more than the victory itself. I know that it depends on the individual situation, but a fighters record means a lot and a loss regardless of whether your opposition missed weight is still a loss
Also in that scenario, the guy that missed weight still gets his show money in full. However, he’s still getting his salary cut in half. I do agree with losing 50 percent or more of your purse if you miss weight.
Are you asking if fighter A (didn’t miss weight) getting half of fighter B’s salary is more beneficial to them than the risk of losing to a guy with a clear advantage? I mean you sort of answered your own question there but yeah, it definitely depends on the guy. I think the vast majority of fighters accept fights when the other guy misses weight. Probably because they need the money or they just want to make their training camp worth it, or both. Every fighter knows if and when they accept, there’s a risk of loss. To them I don’t know if there’s much of a difference between losing to a guy that missed weight, and losing to somebody that made weight.
right. and addressing your last line - if there is an advantage to missing weight (i.e. the person missing weight has 70% win ratio) there should be fear on the part of the person who didn't miss, bc they will be more likely to generate a loss than if they fought someone who made weight.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I like that if you accept the premise of win-bonuses.
I personally don’t like win bonuses, and I especially don’t like when they are a huge chunk of the possible purse.
But, if you’re going to have it, this works nicely.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
Good point.
I wouldn’t advise my guys to accept.
Nor would I. So how do you think Dana treats the guy who missed weight after that? That is the real consequence. Right now they get to fight, most of the time win, and be all apologetic to the ufc and it’s fans as they move up the rankings. That’s bullshit. I hate that because the guy who did his job gets screwed with an L and career setback on top of a possible bonus. If fights get canceled and fighters start getting released or buried, they might get the hint that it’s not ok. I can deal with a couple sacrificial fights until the fighters get their shit together.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
So a couple reasons fighter A would still take the fight is, guy didn’t miss by a ton, wants the win more than he needs the money, or sometimes guys just KNOW they’re gonna beat the guy and they take half of their money while they do it.
I know this is all pretty extreme so maybe have some kind of tier system or something where this kicks in if you miss by more than 2 pounds or something like that.
I actually think at the UFC level all contracted fighters should do a monthly weigh in and hydration test with a doctor, and then an average weight for the last 3 weigh ins should be public and what they base matchups on. Fighter A weighs 193. Will he fight Fighter B, who weighs 196? Yeah? Cool. See you at the fight. Make weight for titles, only. And you fight for the belt above your current weight. So the 193 & 196 lbs guys I mentioned, who currently fight at welterweight, fight each other for the 205 belt, if they're the top two guys.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
So a couple reasons fighter A would still take the fight is, guy didn’t miss by a ton, wants the win more than he needs the money, or sometimes guys just KNOW they’re gonna beat the guy and they take half of their money while they do it.
I know this is all pretty extreme so maybe have some kind of tier system or something where this kicks in if you miss by more than 2 pounds or something like that.
Yeah. I mean you’re right, there are plenty of guys that would take the fight no matter what. I guess my example refers more to guys looking for a way out. At the very least, it increases the chances that fighter A declines. I agree about there being tiers. Guys that miss by 0.5 to 1.5 lbs at times you can tell they at least tried and some bad shit happened. Guys missing 2 lbs or more especially closer to 10, unless there’s a medical reason for it, there’s really no excuse. I think the more you miss, the more you should be penalized. After you miss twice for one weight you’re required to move up.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
So a couple reasons fighter A would still take the fight is, guy didn’t miss by a ton, wants the win more than he needs the money, or sometimes guys just KNOW they’re gonna beat the guy and they take half of their money while they do it.
I know this is all pretty extreme so maybe have some kind of tier system or something where this kicks in if you miss by more than 2 pounds or something like that.
Yeah. I mean you’re right, there are plenty of guys that would take the fight no matter what. I guess my example refers more to guys looking for a way out. At the very least, it increases the chances that fighter A declines. I agree about there being tiers. Guys that miss by 0.5 to 1.5 lbs at times you can tell they at least tried and some bad shit happened. Guys missing 2 lbs or more especially closer to 10, unless there’s a medical reason for it, there’s really no excuse. I think the more you miss, the more you should be penalized. After you miss twice for one weight you’re required to move up.
“I guess my example refers more to guys looking for a way out.”
Oh I fully expect most of them to… and that’s perfectly fine with me. You, me and wiggum all agree with advising to not take the fight… but that’s the guy trying to cut 30 pounds fault. Somehow the guy who makes weight has to “not be a bitch” in everybody’s eyes right now and again that’s just bullshit to me.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
I guess the only drawback I can think of here is that with fighter A getting show money for both, he may not be compelled to accept the fight. Let’s assume that salary for both of them is 30/30. If fighter A doesn’t fight, he gets 60k either way. It obviously works out for fighter A and I believe would be effective on fighter B, but the organization putting the fight together will not benefit from it. They will essentially be paying out 60k for a fight that didn’t happen. That’s the only issue I see, but I do like the idea of fighter A benefitting more from fighter B missing weight. Either that or take 50-60 percent of the purse instead of the standard 20 percent.
So a couple reasons fighter A would still take the fight is, guy didn’t miss by a ton, wants the win more than he needs the money, or sometimes guys just KNOW they’re gonna beat the guy and they take half of their money while they do it.
I know this is all pretty extreme so maybe have some kind of tier system or something where this kicks in if you miss by more than 2 pounds or something like that.
Yeah. I mean you’re right, there are plenty of guys that would take the fight no matter what. I guess my example refers more to guys looking for a way out. At the very least, it increases the chances that fighter A declines. I agree about there being tiers. Guys that miss by 0.5 to 1.5 lbs at times you can tell they at least tried and some bad shit happened. Guys missing 2 lbs or more especially closer to 10, unless there’s a medical reason for it, there’s really no excuse. I think the more you miss, the more you should be penalized. After you miss twice for one weight you’re required to move up.
“I guess my example refers more to guys looking for a way out.”
Oh I fully expect most of them to… and that’s perfectly fine with me. You, me and wiggum all agree with advising to not take the fight… but that’s the guy trying to cut 30 pounds fault. Somehow the guy who makes weight has to “not be a bitch” in everybody’s eyes right now and again that’s just bullshit to me.
Thanks for all your input.
Certainly. Yeah, lol. It’s a completely irrational way of thinking. “Hey, we as fans know that you signed to fight this guy at 170 lbs. He weighed in at 176 lbs. You weighed in at 171 lbs. I know that this is 5 lbs over the limit for welterweight. Not only is that a breach of contract and unprofessional, it will also be a substantial size advantage for your opponent inside the cage. Fighting a bigger guy who isn’t as dehydrated as you greatly increases your risk of losing. We want you to know that we don’t give a flying fuck about any of that because you’re a “fighter”. We care about fair treatment for fighters and overall just a general fairness in the world, but we want you to know that if you don’t take this fight, you’re a pussy”.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
that might work with UFC but these smaller shows would get crushed financially if fighter B doesn’t take the fight and they have to pay both guys purse to someone who doesn’t even fight for them on that night.
If anything, the idea you start a point down is the best idea that I can think of and take a 10% of their purse per lb over w/ minimum being 30%.
The point down idea is good as well, maybe it can be used in combination with higher salary deductions. A lot of times the guy missing weight doesn’t give a fuck about 20 percent and they repeatedly miss weight. If they know they will lose a lot of money AND potentially lose their fight no matter what (unless they get a stoppage), that would definitely reduce the number of weight misses.
KirkBJJ - I just made this up so be easy on me, but how bout something like...
Fighter A makes weight and fighter B misses.
Fighter A gets show money for both fighters if he does not want to take the fight. If he wants to continue on with the fight, fighter B who missed gets his win bonus with a win and that’s it… fighter A keeps show money for both. If fighter B loses, fighter A gets half of fighter B’s show money, plus his own show money and win bonus. So fighter B gets half of his show money and an L for his actions.
Something needs to get into these guys heads that it’s not ok to miss weight and I hate the decision the guys who make weight have to make when somebody else screws up and gives themselves an advantage at the same time.
that might work with UFC but these smaller shows would get crushed financially if fighter B doesn’t take the fight and they have to pay both guys purse to someone who doesn’t even fight for them on that night.
You’re right. I was being UFC specific for sure. Which now that you mention it, I don’t even know if they can make policies like that. If they can’t, and it has to be commission mandated, it probably wouldn’t work because of the lower level promotions like you said. At the same time, there’s very little money down there anyway so who knows.
I just want something that will send a hard message. Missing weight should be rare… right now it almost feels optional. Apples to oranges example here financially obviously, but if I’m 0.1 pounds over at a tournament I’m DQ’d. Period, the end. Fighter’s NUMBER ONE concern should be making weight, but it’s not because it barely matters.
If anything, the idea you start a point down is the best idea that I can think of and take a 10% of their purse per lb over w/ minimum being 30%.
The point down idea is good as well, maybe it can be used in combination with higher salary deductions. A lot of times the guy missing weight doesn’t give a fuck about 20 percent and they repeatedly miss weight. If they know they will lose a lot of money AND potentially lose their fight no matter what (unless they get a stoppage), that would definitely reduce the number of weight misses.
I like the concept of this but we’d also get a ton of draws which nobody, fans included, really wants. But hey… a draw is better than a loss so the missing fighter would have the pressure of literally having to pitch a shut out to win a 3 round fight and I do like that.
If anything, the idea you start a point down is the best idea that I can think of and take a 10% of their purse per lb over w/ minimum being 30%.
The point down idea is good as well, maybe it can be used in combination with higher salary deductions. A lot of times the guy missing weight doesn’t give a fuck about 20 percent and they repeatedly miss weight. If they know they will lose a lot of money AND potentially lose their fight no matter what (unless they get a stoppage), that would definitely reduce the number of weight misses.
I like the concept of this but we’d also get a ton of draws which nobody, fans included, really wants. But hey… a draw is better than a loss so the missing fighter would have the pressure of literally having to pitch a shut out to win a 3 round fight and I do like that.
If anything, the idea you start a point down is the best idea that I can think of and take a 10% of their purse per lb over w/ minimum being 30%.
The point down idea is good as well, maybe it can be used in combination with higher salary deductions. A lot of times the guy missing weight doesn’t give a fuck about 20 percent and they repeatedly miss weight. If they know they will lose a lot of money AND potentially lose their fight no matter what (unless they get a stoppage), that would definitely reduce the number of weight misses.
I like the concept of this but we’d also get a ton of draws which nobody, fans included, really wants. But hey… a draw is better than a loss so the missing fighter would have the pressure of literally having to pitch a shut out to win a 3 round fight and I do like that.
Yeah. I agree that a lot of people won’t want draws. I’m not one of them, I’m okay with draws and in fact there are many fights I scored as a draw. Like you said either way, it incentivizes fighter B to get the finish or just completely dominate. The same thing that could make a fight boring could make it equally exciting, even if it’s a draw, it could be an entertaining fight. Which is what everyone wants in the end.
the fight is the fight, if it goes ahead, there should be no fucking around with records or scorecards. that's a lotta boolsheet mayne.
lol @ the noob suggestion of giving away their bonus. how many organisations give bonuses? only the top ones, so that's like a football fan assuming every club is in the Premier league
if you go ahead and fight, you should get paid, maybe some of your purse goes to the opponent. maybe they should be punished by making them dress up like a fucking dickhead and be photographed. it could be fun to see the weight-miss pictures, and new ways to humiliate dirty weight-cutters.
maybe they should be forced to do mma community service. mow their opponent's lawn or take his old washing machine to the tip. all documented to deter other goddam cheats.