Most people who walk through the door of a gym will never get in the ring. I see nothing wrong with implementing a belt system to keep those people--who are the ones who actully make the school successful--engaged and feeling like they're making progress.
No one has a problem with it in BJJ or Judo. Why is it suddenly a problem in MMA? Most you guys whining about belts being evil probably dont' even train, much less fight.
because ranks, especially the more complicated and arbitrary the ranking system, are usually a significant contributor to a combat sport or martial art going to shit.
BJJ has a fairly reasonable and high quality tradition for it's belts, and they still have plenty of problems with it. Judo has a system that I don't like overall, but it's somewhat standard and has some good ideas. They have even more problems.
most of the rest of the belt ranking systems are utterly craptacular.
"BJJ has ranks"
and BJJ does probably the best job of any combat sport in it's belt system.
it also has competitions to help keep rankings valid. So does Judo.
but these MMA belts are for people who DO NOT FIGHT.
if you want half-reasonable rankings you're gonna have to have them fight someone, either fighting smokers or full scale fights in the gym.
and at a certain point, then why aren't they fighting amateur?
"Muay Thai has ranks"
no. MT gyms have ranks. MT as a sport has the same ranking system as boxing, the belt is in the ring and the rankings are in Golden Gloves, State Championships, and The Ring mag for pros.
The first website I ever read about MT made this point pretty fucking clear even back then.
if you gotta use a ranking system for your gym, use something modeled as directly as possible from BJJ with the standarization level of Judo's stuff, and update the curriculum as MMA changes.
while I agree a gym-based ranking system isn't the end of the world, a lot of you guys seem to have forgotten your time in TMA.
I have no desire to see MMA go down the same path.
besides, if these guys are doing MMA, why don't they just also take the BJJ class that their gym inevitably has and get rank through that system?
fuck belts!!!!!! cant we just get different colored affliction Tshirts to show how tough we are?
Affliction is the new white trash status symbol.
ninjaboy562 - I was talking to one of my friends who had a yellow belt test today, I know he started training a few months ago so I asked him what does the test consist of? He said just basic combos, kicks and takedowns I believe along with some basic ground work.
Whats your opinion on this? In BJJ I understand the need for it but how else besides belt systems would you rank your new students just wanting to learn MMA as a whole?
The problem with this question is it just assumes everyone excepts that MMA is 'A style'... which IMO it absolutly isnt
An MMA gym is a place that teaches several martial arts ... usually BJJ, wrestling and Muay Thai... or something similar
And you get your 'Rank' through those already established arts.
Anyplace that claims MMA is actually there style sounds shady to me.
I cant think of any 'Real' MMA team that actually claims MMA as 'there style'
" I cant think of any 'Real' MMA team that actually claims MMA as 'there style'"
Militech fighting systems for one. Greg Jackson, also, gives out rank with Gaido-jitsu.
You guys are trying to hard to act like MMA is not a system of fighting. I see nothing wrong with rank. Most of you guys will never fight so at least the ranking system gives you an idea where you are at for your school.
i don't know if MFS still does this, but i remember a some people on the internet did say "i'm a green belt under miletich fighting systems..."
Chute Boxe has a belt ranking system.
I was just reading an article on how a bunch of Shooto gyms have decided to experiment with a coloured T-shirts ranking system.
It goes something like this:
White = Beginner
Yellow = Knows the basics.
Green = Has Competed in 'Grappling-Rule' events.
Blue= Has competed in 'Amateur-Rule' evennts.
Black = Pro-level fighter, able to oversee training.
I might have mixed up the colours a little, but that was the general idea.
I thought it was a pretty interesting system
.
Opash do you have the link to the article, that would be an interesting read.. Interesting concept with the shirts...
Only problem with that, Opash, is that lots of "promoters/trainers" will have guys in blue shirts within a week of joining the gym.
BJJ has a somewhat universal grading system and has organizations that give credibility. I can see every school having different standards.
A lot of people prefer MMA because it doesn't have a belt system.
Problems also arise when someone thinks he should be a certain belt but hasn't been promoted yet.
my two cents
Belts are a result of the U.S. military occupying Japan after WWII. There was no Japanese yellow,orange,blue,etc belt system. When G.I.s wanted to teach the native arts they learned in Japan they used the teaching template they knew best: Basic Training Private, corporal, sargent, became white, yellow, orange and so on.
Basic training is a good template for teaching the same thing to lots of people. Not so good for the individual training pro fighters need.
cape - my gym's in the process of implementing a grading a ranking system for its MMA program. Let's say we have about 15 MMA fighters, what about the other 100 guys down here training? Why not have some kind of grading system so they can have something to work towards and tangible evidence of their training.
BJJ has ranks, Muay Thai has ranks, why shouldn't mma have ranks?
I agree.
Rankings are a great goal for students to work towards.
i like the idea. mma is not bjj
my old school used legit belts. my new school uses a shirt ranking system to differ levels of students. im personally not for it but not againsted it id say im indifferent, im more concered with training and fighting down the road than what color shirt im wearing to class.
ttt
" " I cant think of any 'Real' MMA team that actually claims MMA as 'there style'"
Militech fighting systems for one. Greg Jackson, also, gives out rank with Gaido-jitsu."
Do you not see the obvious folly in this argument? That's why they call them "Miletich Fighting Sytems" and "Gaido Jitsu" and not "MMA". MFS claims MFS as their style, not "MMA". The same with Jackson.
MMA is a sport, not a style.
MMA is a sport, made up of competitors from various styles/systems/arts. Most fighters study more than one style/system/art.
In the old days (BEFORE "TMA" dominance), there were ONLY fighters. Then the world became more "civilized," and martial arts become watered-down remnants of the methods that were previously used on the battlefield. The "art" aspect was emphasized over the "Scientific killing method" aspect.
Today, we are talking about fighters versus non-fighters. However, if you were to go back to 1700 Japan, they would still LAUGH at our so-called "fighters" - because THEY fought to the death. So, it's a matter of perspective, really.
Jigoro Kano invented the first belt system, for Judo. Every other martial art that uses a belt system just copied his idea, because they saw the benefits of giving a non-lethal fighting system a series of short-term goals. Not everyone is a talented athlete. Not everyone has the tools, or even the necessary time and desire, to be a successful fighter - whether it be a true "warrior," or a sport combatant. For those interested in "learning" the "art" side of ANY martial art, a belt system is a good thing.
Having said that, I think a belt-ranking system in "MMA" is not a good idea. MMA is a SPORT. Calling a system "MFS" or "Gaido-jitsu" and the like IS a good idea. Originally, ALL styles were formed and taught by individuals who synthesized what they knew into something "new," and the ones that were successful (in combat) survived, while those that were unsuccesful quickly died out (along with their now-deceased practitioners and creators!) ANYONE can "create" a new style. This is the problem with TMAs today - too many people just threw together a bunch of techniques and some forms and called it an "art." In MMA, however, we see the "proof" of which systems are effective, and which are not (at least in a sport environment; self-defense is another matter entirely). I see hundreds (if not thousands) of new styles/systems/arts being created in the near future, as each gym creates its own syllabus for training and ranking. The meaning of those ranks will be validated in the cage/ring for those who choose to COMPETE (be it MMA, kickboxing, boxing, Submission wrestling, Jiu Jitsu, or whatever the emphasized "strengths" may be of the particular style). For those who do NOT wish to compete, the ranks will only hold as much meaning as the local perceptions will bear, and in no small part based on the standards of "effectiveness" of the gym and/or person setting the benchmarks for those ranks. Some will be highly effective, such as BJJ. Others will be much lower, such as many modern TMAs have become. In the end, however, it is GOOD for the martial arts industry as a whole. It will also be GREAT for the sport of MMA, because many people who don't start out with the "itch" to fight, actually GET that itch, after they reach a certain skill point. It's human nature to be competitive (at least for most people, lol). There will be many "black belts" in various new styles that will want to represent that style and their gym........ leading to large groups of new fighters, REGARDLESS of what they call what they do.