I've been thinking about the boxing vs mma ideas lately and I think I have a new angle to work from.
I think a lot of people prefer boxing over UFC/mma because they are more familiar with it but if you look deeper into it I think it is because boxing is more of teh poor man's sport and is more available to blue collar America.
Most boxing gyms that trains amateur fighters don't actually have membership sues and if they do than they are minimal.Most boxing gyms are in the poorer communities and many boxers use boxing as a way to bring themselves up and out of teh trouble that surrounds them in the community.Most people think that boxing is full of thugs and many of them are right but it is basically because even though these fighters have brought themselves up from poverty they are still in their hearts from the streets.
Now on the other end of teh spectrum there is mma.We know that 90% of the time that bjj can be superior but look at what it costs to train at a top bjj school in your area.I hear about schools on the West Coast where it would cost as much as $100 or more a month to train at that school in grappling.
When you break it down yur average laboror making under 10 bucks an hour and tryign to feed his family can't afford to attend such a school without having to make a cutback in another area at his home.Boxing is available to people of most finiancial backgrounds where as there aren't a lot of bjj schools in the ghetto that are affordable.
Peopel know boxing.it is something that is taught cheap and is everywhere.It can be passed down from father to son genaration after genaration.People see boxing on television on a weekly basis and most boxing events are easily affordable.Not to mention that price of a UFC ppv vs watching boxing for free on ESPN or HBO.
I went to a boxing show two weeks ago where the tickets were on average 8 bucks a piece.8 Bucks!!.I don't think I've ever been to an mma event that had Genaral admission for under 10 bucks.I'm fighting in an mma event next month where the tickets on average are between 20-35 dollars.
It's no wonder that people can relate more to boxing than mma.
I don't want to get into the topic of people thinking grappling concists of rubbing up against another man or about how we need a tv show to promote the sport. Those are angles to be worked on at a different time.
But stop and think of what you pay a month to train and then imagine how many more people you would see if the classes were more affordable.Hell I know tkd schools that charge 40 a month and people still think that is a bit steep.
Boxing is a blue collar sport that vegas and MSG try to spritz up but mma is a rich man's sport through and through
Tru dat. A recent OG poll revealed that half of the posters here are otolaryngologists.
Agreed
Miller you could not be more correct. Alot of the problem with our sport is the greed associated with it. For instance BJJ,when Royce showed the world a small man could consistently beat big guys without sustaining much damage everyone wantd to train BJJ. I dont know about you guys but I did different martial arts around ten years before ole Royce came onto the seen. When I used to train , a school who charged more than $40 per month was considered very expensive. Then BJJ was born into the american scene and you couldnt take lessons for less than $100 month. Of course other styles that were born from the UFC style also had high pricing because they could get away with charging that much. You can train in our sport a little cheaper now but your probably not gonna get a black belt level instructor. Maybe a blue or purple.
"Alot of the problem with our sport is the greed associated with it."
Boxing today is practically the embodiment of greed, on the part of the promoters, the fighters, and everyone else involved. Maybe not at the grass-roots gym level, but how many of the fans making boxing a hugely popular worldwide sport do you suppose have ever set foot inside a gym or worked a speedbag?
Absolutely.
Boxing clubs maybe cost $25/month... maybe.
Wrestling is similar. Join an amateur wrestling club. Pay annual insurance and that is quite possibly all you pay... if you pay more it is also likely to be $25 or less a month.
TMA folk have brought up $40.. I have no clue about that.
I did escrima for years for free, and eventually it became ~$40/month (more of a 'what you think it is worth, you pay out of respect' thing.)
$100-$150/month places grappling and MMA at a different and less accessible level for many people. Especially for a hobby.
People don't run gyms to make everyone happy about their prices, they do it to make a living. The gym owners that actually have to pay $2000-$3000 a month in lease to have mat space available to their students cannot charge a measly $25 a month. Even if they had 100 active students, they wouldn't even break even. Commercial real estate prices are absurd. Maybe some of you could build barns with 2000 sq. ft. mats so that everyone could train for $25 a month.
Brett
Once MMA gyms become more common, the price will go down.
There aren't enough gyms across the country right now, so price remains high.
true
Who gives a shit, it´s a business like anything else, obviously you can charge 100$ a month since BJJ schools seem to be blooming, and i see TMA schools charging similar fee´s. Why should martial artists be poor? If you´re a good teacher and people are willing to pay, charge as much as you can.
btw... I don't disagree that it is reasonable to charge the market rates if this is your business and way of supporting yourself.
I also think it is fair to say that the costs do limit availability to a certain clientele.
true, mma class IS expensive
"LOL, that is the weakest argument i've ever heard, miller.
LOL@ mma being a "rich mans sport".
ahahhahahaha! have you ever been to a UFC? the crowd is a bunch of beer bellied derelicts with stone-cold goatees and tapout hoodies on screaming obscenities at the fighters. "
I've been to two UFCs and I felt the ticket prices were outrageous.Just because the majority of the fans were white trash rednecks doesn't mean they don't have any money.
My argument being that if mma was more reasonably priced across the board more people could relate to it due to personal involvement.I'm not referring to the fat hillbilly with the stone cold t-shirt but the people who have their kids enrolled into TKD because it only costs a third of what bjj costs when they don't even know the difference between the styles.
Boxing is easily accessible.If you wanted to go to a boxing gym it wouldn't cost you much.A BJJ gi alone will cost you what it costs to go to a boxing club for 4 or 5 months
Miller: I think a large part of it is because it´s a young sport (BJJ). There are relatively few (compared to other martial arts) black/brown belts in BJJ, so they are scarce and usually hold a monopoly when they open up a school. Once more people get qualified in teaching, the prices will propably drop.
Btw i don´t believe those are the reasons TKD schools are more popular. They have lots of belts and they are all easy to reach if you give it time (usually if you test for a belt you'll get it, you just need x amount of time before testing for a belt). BJJ is hard and getting better is hard, that´s why i think people opt for TKD if they do a martial art. I´ll guarantee you that the extra costs (aside from the monthly fee) in TKD will be a LOT higher then BJJ, including the testing fee, Gi's etc.
For the most part boxing at grass roots level is pretty small. Most casual boxing fans only watch or attend the big fights. On average the big boxing fights tickets and ppv cost way more than mma.
I do agree however that training costs are extremely high but that said most mma instructors are poor and can barely afford their rent.
"I do agree however that training costs are extremely high but that said most mma instructors are poor and can barely afford their rent."
Maybe they should get a real job then. Not trying to be disrespectful but If they are a great trainer, like in boxing ,they will get a percentage of there fighters purse. Manny steward dint get rich charging for boxing lessons. He trained fighters at the Kronk gym till he had good enough fighters to make good proffesionals. He honed his craft and got paid later when he mastered it.
let me add that when i say "hone there craft" I mean as a trainer. Just because you earn a black belt or whatever rank does not make you a good teacher/trainer automatically.
Miller and The Adonis both bring up good points. But about the PPV prices/seating prices, they aren't really comparable because of the popularity of each sport differs so drastically. If MMA ever gets as popular as boxing, you know the PPV and seat prices will go up a lot from what they are at now.
SteveD that may work in boxing where you can fight for up to and over 1 million per fight... but in the usa less than 10 people make 100k a fight or more. Add to that less than that many people will have more than 5 fights before there are no longer needed in the ufc.
When/if this sport grows to the point that fighters make a million a fight im sure trainers will switch to that form of pay.
good point charles.