As Big John would say, he was gaming the system. Happy he lost like that...
It clearly looks only his fingers are touching, and the rules say full palm or fist, neither of which is in either strikes.
Is OP thinking we still go by 2016 rules?
"..., both palms, both fists, or a palm and a fist must be touching the canvas."
Source: the rules.
Member Since: 12/11/15
I dont care.. I hope fighters get hit illegally hard every time they do that stupid rule until they change it completely.
BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide -Cookeabowl -Thanks for making this thread, palm or fist down. We done here?
Point is, Rogan was going by that criteria. So was the referee, and everyone else watching. And the second knee, by that criteria, was illegal.
At point of contact both hands aren't on the mat. Maybe the wind up for the second knee was illegal . But Weidmans right hand came up at the point of impact . Therefore legal knees. Weidman should get into a league more his speed .
"I thought I was going to win by DQ"
MGer - Jesus fuck.. Fingers do NOT matter. Its palms or a fist. Jesus mother of fuck.
This. How do all these people continue to ignore the rule? Are any of you who say it's legal actually reading? WTF
MGer - Jesus fuck.. Fingers do NOT matter. Its palms or a fist. Jesus mother of fuck.
Missing the point. You're saying the same thing as so many others... yeh we NOW know fingers do not matter. But up until very recently, and including at the time of the fight, the generally accepted criteria was that fingers DO matter. I've seen fighter place their fingers down many times, Rogan thought that was the rule, the ref also, AND everyone now talking about palms/fists.
1. Referee error stopped the fight 2. Replays are not allowed to be taken into consideration in NY (as far as I'm aware).
Therefore Weidman either should have been allowed to continue or get the DQ win, albeit due to poor understanding of the rules by the referee. It's just a fact, no matter what your opinion.
This illustrates the problems with rules of minutia when you lack a solid vehicle by which the ‘officials’ in charge can make rulings based on factual evidence.
Dan didn’t make a mistake; he made a judgment call as it happened. He can only work with what he sees at that time and since you’re talking about fractions of a second, no person can expect to successfully analyze that kind of detail as it happens with 100% accuracy. There have been plenty of bad calls by referees in any sport but it’ll never be ‘fair’ to everyone unless they have someone who can officially analyze instant replays and make rulings at that time. Since NY lacked that perspective, Dan’s original call should have prevailed, even after McCarthy informed him otherwise. Since Weidman was angling for a DQ win, that’s probably what should have happened based on the state rules that governed the event. If it’s wrong then it gets overturned when it gets contested.
The whole fight is fucked and will most likely be turned into a no contest, as it should. Both fighters are guilty of creating the situation. Mousasi couldn’t have known that the knees were legal and Weidman was guilty of trying to use a rule to shield him from blows instead of following the most basic rule of protecting yourself at all times.
TXExpat -This illustrates the problems with rules of minutia when you lack a solid vehicle by which the ‘officials’ in charge can make rulings based on factual evidence.
Dan didn’t make a mistake; he made a judgment call as it happened. He can only work with what he sees at that time and since you’re talking about fractions of a second, no person can expect to successfully analyze that kind of detail as it happens with 100% accuracy. There have been plenty of bad calls by referees in any sport but it’ll never be ‘fair’ to everyone unless they have someone who can officially analyze instant replays and make rulings at that time. Since NY lacked that perspective, Dan’s original call should have prevailed, even after McCarthy informed him otherwise. Since Weidman was angling for a DQ win, that’s probably what should have happened based on the state rules that governed the event. If it’s wrong then it gets overturned when it gets contested.
The whole fight is fucked and will most likely be turned into a no contest, as it should. Both fighters are guilty of creating the situation. Mousasi couldn’t have known that the knees were legal and Weidman was guilty of trying to use a rule to shield him from blows instead of following the most basic rule of protecting yourself at all times.
Incorrect judgement calls and mistakes are the exact same thing. The rest of your post I agree with, except it shouldn't even really be overturned if Weidman was given the DQ win. Mousasia point was a good one - soccer referees give incorrect penalties all the time. But the result stays the same.
BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide -MGer - Jesus fuck.. Fingers do NOT matter. Its palms or a fist. Jesus mother of fuck.Missing the point. You're saying the same thing as so many others... yeh we NOW know fingers do not matter. But up until very recently, and including at the time of the fight, the generally accepted criteria was that fingers DO matter. I've seen fighter place their fingers down many times, Rogan thought that was the rule, the ref also, AND everyone now talking about palms/fists.
I find it mind-boggling that fighters weren't briefed on a such a significant change in the rules.
I also find it disturbing that Mirg didn't understanding that hands have to be planted on the canvas. If he understood the rule, he would have easily been able to tell that Weidman wasn't planted based on the way that his torso was moving while he was taking those knees.
Card -Did he really say that? Can't watch the video. I feel kinda bad for him.......actually fuck that I remember that night he dropped a clowning Silva...felt like he ripped out my heart and took a bite while I watched.
"I thought I was going to win by DQ"
scrapdo -do u the replays matter?MGer - Jesus fuck.. Fingers do NOT matter. Its palms or a fist. Jesus mother of fuck.This. How do all these people continue to ignore the rule? Are any of you who say it's legal actually reading? WTF
or are you guys only sticklers for the rules when it fits you're agenda?
BuyTheTicketTakeTheRide -TXExpat -This illustrates the problems with rules of minutia when you lack a solid vehicle by which the ‘officials’ in charge can make rulings based on factual evidence.
Dan didn’t make a mistake; he made a judgment call as it happened. He can only work with what he sees at that time and since you’re talking about fractions of a second, no person can expect to successfully analyze that kind of detail as it happens with 100% accuracy. There have been plenty of bad calls by referees in any sport but it’ll never be ‘fair’ to everyone unless they have someone who can officially analyze instant replays and make rulings at that time. Since NY lacked that perspective, Dan’s original call should have prevailed, even after McCarthy informed him otherwise. Since Weidman was angling for a DQ win, that’s probably what should have happened based on the state rules that governed the event. If it’s wrong then it gets overturned when it gets contested.
The whole fight is fucked and will most likely be turned into a no contest, as it should. Both fighters are guilty of creating the situation. Mousasi couldn’t have known that the knees were legal and Weidman was guilty of trying to use a rule to shield him from blows instead of following the most basic rule of protecting yourself at all times.
Incorrect judgement calls and mistakes are the exact same thing. The rest of your post I agree with, except it shouldn't even really be overturned if Weidman was given the DQ win. Mousasia point was a good one - soccer referees give incorrect penalties all the time. But the result stays the same.
You are correct. I was more responding to the posts that are critizing Dan's call as poor judgement and I didn't end up making that point with what I wrote. His call was a mistake, albeit a virtually unavoidable one since his primary responsibility is to protect the fighters; he should always seek to err on the side of caution.
I disagree on it being overturned if it went to Weidman. I think that that is the very essense of what a No Contest is. The fight was stopped due to an unforseen set of circumstances that was not specifically the fault of one of the contestants. The strikes were legal so you clearly couldn't allow a Weidman victory to stand. There would be no point in having the ability to contest a decision if that ability didn't actually review the legality of the ruling and right incorrect decisions.
If either party can show that the decision was the result of an error, it should ultimately benefit neither party. I personally think that applies in either case but the only reason I believe that it shouldn't go to Mousasi is because Chris probably woudn't have been quite as injured as he believed he was if the fight wasn't stopped. Chris would have kept going but the fight was stopped and he saw an opportunity to get a W on what he believed was an illegal strike.
Fingertips don't count. Weidman should've tried to fight on. He shouldn't have tried to touch the ground to take advantage of that pussified rule anyway. He shouldn't have let Moose get him in that position in the first place. Wtf, Weidman? Acting all hurt till he finds out that it's legal , then it's a miraculous recovery. Totally pussified. I thought it was below Weidman's stature to pull that but I guess not.
Really, it depends on the fighter and if the internet forum likes him or not.
Plenty of other fighters who got kneed in the head while on all 4s would get a pass at the very least from you guys.
TXExpat -This illustrates the problems with rules of minutia when you lack a solid vehicle by which the ‘officials’ in charge can make rulings based on factual evidence.
Dan didn’t make a mistake; he made a judgment call as it happened. He can only work with what he sees at that time and since you’re talking about fractions of a second, no person can expect to successfully analyze that kind of detail as it happens with 100% accuracy. There have been plenty of bad calls by referees in any sport but it’ll never be ‘fair’ to everyone unless they have someone who can officially analyze instant replays and make rulings at that time. Since NY lacked that perspective, Dan’s original call should have prevailed, even after McCarthy informed him otherwise. Since Weidman was angling for a DQ win, that’s probably what should have happened based on the state rules that governed the event. If it’s wrong then it gets overturned when it gets contested.
The whole fight is fucked and will most likely be turned into a no contest, as it should. Both fighters are guilty of creating the situation. Mousasi couldn’t have known that the knees were legal and Weidman was guilty of trying to use a rule to shield him from blows instead of following the most basic rule of protecting yourself at all times.
I agree with almost everything. If Dan judged that the the knee was illegal and intentional, then Yes, Weidman should have gotten the DQ win. If Dan judged that the knee was illegal and unintentional (which I believe he did), then the fight should be ruled a No Contest, being that Weidman couldn't continue.
Dan said that he wasn't going to take a point off, so it's likely that he believed it to be unintentional. Intent matters in the scenario.
Rule states explicitly palm or fist of both hands must be down. That was neither his palm nor his fist.
RenzoStudent2004 - Rule states explicitly palm or fist of both hands must be down. That was neither his palm nor his fist.
