There's been debate lately on my opinion of Chute Boxe in general, based upon my responses on threads where I'm jeering their members. I don't want this misinterpretted... I believe Chute Boxe is one of the most dominant and influential outfits in modern MMA, or quite possibly even MMA history... so what I'm about to say may be taken one way, but I do not mean to offend, berate, or otherwise chap the asses of anyone.
The things I have said in regard to Vanderlei's improvement as a fighter, are not based upon his ever-changing physical attributes as he gets older... of course he carries more muscle and is more experienced now. However, in my opnion, in order to consider a fighter as "improving", he'd have to be fighting opponents that were pregressively better as he went along. Has Vanderlei done that?
In 25 wins and 3 losses spanning his career, he's got some great wins, no question about it... Sakuraba is no joke (3 times... still, greatest Japanese fighter of our modern era), Yoshida (by decision... but w = w), Quinton in the GP(after givin all he could to the Iceman), a decision over Hendo and a draw against Mirko... all very impressive. However...
Win over Ikuhisa Minowa by KO... who?
Win over Hidehiko Yoshida by Decision... who?
Win over Hiromitsu Kanehara by TKO... who?
Win over Tatsuya Iwasaki by TKO... WHO?
Win over Kiyoshi Tamura by TKO... huh?
That record that people hold in such high regard is held in high regard mainly by the Japanese, whose fighters are continually sent to the slaughter in an attempt to build up their champion's repoire. Truth is, everytime Vanderlei is encountered by competition of any reputable class, outside of the guardianship Japan has placed over him...
Loss to Tito Ortiz by Decision
Loss to Vitor Belfort by TKO (Strikes)
Loss to Artur Mariano by TKO (Cut)
... after which he scurries off to Japan, fights exclusively for Pride, and proceeds to become the first ever Pride LHW Champion, AND holds the belt to this day, under what could arguably be consider the vigilance of DreamStage Entertainment.
To me, that is not an improving fighter, nor is it even an advancing fighter. Vanderlei Silva is not facing the best opponents in the world, rising to accept challenges, or dedicating himself to excellence or evolution by continuing to be a Pride Poster-boy. He's holding that belt right now largely in part due to DreamStage's 2nd round matchmaking, as I believe any match between him and Quinton, provided both fighters are fresh, will yield MUCH different results.
Even with that aside... 3 almost-consecutive losses has Vanderlei, in my opinion, staying in Japan throughout his current career, due to the guaranteed safe-haven he has there. They love him, and for that reason, he will hold the belt until someone who can match the combination of his visciousness, his charisma and his celebrity steps up and is liked more by the Japanese.
Bring it, troll away. I give a fuck. My opinion stands.
"draw" with cro cop?
Let's see Silva do K-1, bub.
And dude....... come ON.
Yoshida was old.
Quinton was tired.
Sak, I'll give him... but 3 straight times? He was past his prime.
And Cro Cop... man, that still has me wondering what you're talking about.
"Let's see Silva do K-1, bub."
You mean like Big Daddy? Or Sudo?
You ask who Tamura is. Who is Kanehara? Who is Minowa? I would assume that with your green name you would know who they were. You ask who they are.
My question is: who the hell are you?
Yo Pimp, easy. I ain't sayin "who" as in "I'm so much better"... I'm sayin "who" as in "how the fuck did they earn shots against Vanderlei????????"
"he fucked up hendo as well. and mezger."
I'll give him those. Prime wins. Mezger was a brutal victory.
silva beat crocop handily being smaller and fighting under rules that favored crocop, he didnt get the w because it was a no decision fight.
and as far as the "Win over Hiromitsu Kanehara by TKO... who?", he did what a superior fighter should do, he blew them out in very impressive fashion.
"Quinton was tired." so was vanderlei, and vand went the distance against yoshida.
"find me another fighter who can beat hendo,jackson,yoshida,sakuraba (who at the time of first fight was supposedly best ever and was picked to beat silva easily) and "draw" with cro cop."
That about says it all.
Silva is a stud!
"he fucked up hendo as well"
CASE CLOSED, THREAD OVA!
Already my post is misinterpreted.
You fucks. Seriously. Did I not clearly say I think Vanderlei is a great fighter? I'm not slamming on other fighters, I'm putting them into comparitive classes. And the way I see it, 3 outta the last 10 fighters Japan's given Vanderlei have made it into that class. And with that, maybe 5 or 6 out of close to 30 opponents SHOULD have actually fought Vanderlei.
Going the distance with Yoshida is supposed to be a bragging point for a fighter like Vanderlei?????? That's supposed to even tire him out??????? Dude, come on. COME ON. Be honest here. That's Vanderlei's fuckin morning warm-up. It was NOTHING for him to control Yoshida for that 20 minutes they asked of him. And I'll BETCHA they even asked Vanderlei not to hurt him too bad... how much do you wanna bet?
"lololol @ this Gojuru Karate Fool not knowing SIlva fought Cro Cop and kicked his ass"
I saw the fight, ya shit. He didn't win it. Cro Cop cleaned his clock with one body kick in particular. Not once did Vanderlei return substantial fire.
Watch the fight you think I didn't see again, brainiac.
to bad he out weight Hendo (and i love him as a fighter) by about 20 lbs
silva is a bad ass but needs to fight Randy, Chuck and maybe even Tito again and of course VITOR
mezger is a solid fighter, but come on, every top fighter, chuck, tito, silva has either ko'd him or tko'd him
"silva is a bad ass but needs to fight Randy, Chuck and maybe even Tito again and of course VITOR"
THANK YOU!!!!! Finally, someone jumps to my side.
You people and your fuckin lynch-mob majorities... jesus christ, get a room.
Actually, I just bought one of those BJJ WTF books in the grappling magazines, so I'm planning on knowing what 15 minutes of grappling is like in about 2 - 4 weeks, per the advertisement.
... fucker.
"to bad he out weight Hendo (and i love him as a fighter) by about 20 lbs"
source?
"This guys has PROVEN himself the best and most active fighter in the world. just like Mino, he will fight anyone......."
.... that Japan lets him fight.
My claim isn't that he's ducking anyone... my claim is that he's got this false stigma of invincibility for absolutely no reason apparent to me.
Put me in there with an underclassed fighter in any respect... and no matter what style, there's ass kickin abound.
"ghost, read my fucking post dumbass."
Gator Man, if you ever speak to me like that again, the next time I come over to plug your mom's crotchole, I'm going to shit in your mouth and ducttape it shut.
"My question is: who the hell are you? "
ghost, your a funny mf'er but your way off on this one... pride is wierd, it seems for every "TC" you get, you also get a "must fight crocop under special rules" match... silvas earned his bones (to say the least)
Boy did this thread get blown out or proportions and misdirected. I think most people got the misconception that Ghost is trashing on Silva. More than anything, I think Ghost is more so criticising Pride for not trying to feed Silva more top contenders.
Ghost made some very valid points. I think Silva is a warrior but the only real improvement he has made since the fight against Tito is in the area of his weight, mass, muscularity and strength and IMO it is doubtful that he did it naturally.