Personally I dont like training with neck cranks, however this new guy who just came out from wrestling is like neck crank master. He keeps catching me in them and he doesnt explode into them, however I feel its a little to dangerous for training. Just wondering on others opinions.
If you trust him and he is a good training partner there is no problem in training them IMO.
It's one of those dodgy areas like heelhooks, but if you are training with guys that are good training partners then there is no reason you can't train them if you want to.
Here's my take: people applying neck cranks shouldn't do it full force, they should ease into them. People on the receiving end of neck cranks shouldn't be too proud to tap to the crank before it becomes unbearable. In other words, the person being cranked has to share the responsibility for their own safety by tapping out before it becomes too much. Just as Mit said, treat it like the heelhook: both people need to be responsible.
I love neck cranks, I think they are some of the most effective submissions out there, and I think it's a shame that so many gyms have a carte blanche "No neck cranks" policy. The further nelson neck crank, the chin pick twist, the figure 4 crank, the crooked head scissors...these are fight enders and we should practice applying and resisting them in a safe manner.
I enjoy good techniques with good training partners. I guess if a neck crank isn't "gooned" in to play, it's cool with me.
Are they allowed in MMA? I haven't seen a neck crank used since Mark Kerr (that I can remember).
Several years back, I had a friend who was a police Lieutenant (Lt.) training with a real good friend of his who was a sergeant on the same department. They started training Jiu Jitsu together and they were very close friends, but very competitive. The sergeant had done Jiu Jitsu years back and had a little knowledge. He also kept up on all the UFCs, not that that is training, but he wasn?t totally new to submissions. Anyways, they were both competitive rolling one night and the sergeant took the Lt. into a neck crank and broke the Lt?s. neck in two places.
The Lt was a quadriplegic, in a wheel chair for the rest of his life. He was medically retired from the department and nearly lost everything he owned, because the retirement wasn?t nothing compared to his salary. Because it happened off duty, his retirement was crap. Plus all the medical bills and care for a quad is hell-a-expensive. The sergeant later committed suicide and left two little kids behind?.
This didn?t happen at my school, but the guys were well known in the area we live and train in. Yeah, so we don?t do too many neck cracks.
Neck cranks and heel hooks aren't to be used lightly by any means. I think that story illustrates that if you are in any danger, tap. There is no room for error with these tech. Tragic story.
When the crank was applied, it started with a can opener and then the Lt was wiggling around and somehow they turned sideways and then there was a loud snap. As the Sergeant let go, there was two more pops. The Lt was life flighted from the school.
Last I heard Lt has an electric wheel chair that he operates with one of those mouth sticks. His medical bills total over six thousand for care and medical needs a year. There family is totally broke and the whole story brings chilies down my spine.
At my school, neck cranks can only be applied by upper belts and it isn't even taught until they are at least a blue belt. We don't have a competition school which competes, so it isn't an issue.
Yah that is terrifying!
Wholly crap!!!!!
That is the last time I ever do a neck crank or allow a neck crank to be done on me!
Thanks for the informative story.
JM
One freak accident does not mean that neck cranks are evil, geez
Fig4U, now I understand your attitude toward can openers. I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
I think the story tragic as it seems just illustrates that the two in question weren't really respecting the neck cranks at all. I would never go for one in competition and would tap superquick to one if it was applied...pride be damned. I have hurt my neck tons on my own without anyone else helping.
Use to train neck cranks a little and always had little tweaks and aches etc.
Havnt done them for a couple of years and its great not having lots of aches and pains.
Sorry I did not get back to you guys in a few days, I have been out of town. Jemmmitt, this happened about eight to nine years ago in San Diego. I do not think it was in the papers, but if you find the article, I would like to get a copy, so please IM me with the link, if you find it.
In addition, Jemmmitt, to let you know, yes a "can opener" can break necks. I have seen it twice in street fights and once in a prison video. I have seen several broken necks from simple things that you would think would never break a neck, but it does.
The only thing I am expressing is, be very careful. If you are involved in a street confrontation and you "can open" someone, his neck breaks, you are going to jail, if not prison for a while.
Breaking a neck in a confrontation is a deadly force issue and if your life is not in immediate danger of death or great bodily injure, you are not only criminally wrong, but also civil, and you will lose everything.
I have been a cop for fifteen years. I have taken hundreds of people to jail for seriously injuring other people. You could be fighting with someone and then all of a sudden the other person is dead. Now you are looking at involuntary manslaughter. The human body is not as durable as most people think.
People die everyday. Think about it, how many people died today, but when they got up this morning, they thought about what they were doing next week, next month and never got there?
Unlike play station, there is no reset. dead is dead. Make one mistake and your life can change forever.
Think of the guilt that sergeant lived with. His friend, his boss, a fellow cop, a quad. That guilt was so instance, he took his own life and left a wife, kids and a career behind because of it.
Well enough preaching from me. Take care, guys.
In my opinion they are too dangerous to train safely meaning that you won't be good at them because you won't be able to train them often against many different people before you accidently hurt someone and will probably stop training them. Additionally, as mentioned above by fig4u (good post) you have to think about why you're training what you're training. Why train something that takes a life when a rear naked choke incapacitates nearly as quickly?
Additionally I would be VERY careful when you train heel hooks, knee books, figure four ankle locks, bicep crunches, and calf crunches.
I have a blanket no neck crank and no heel hook policy when I am training. I am a cop and I cant afford the time off from injuries. I already have a bulging disc from a can opener six years ago when I was stupid and trained that way. If people want to train for MMA or no-gi stuff then go for it, but I just do this for fun and exercise.
Sometimes it bothers me, most times it doesn't. I went for a full year with it hurting every day. I think I did more damage to my stomach by taking truck loads of anti-inflams.
It's a 2mm bulge between C5 and C6 and the doctor said it wasn't bad enough to do anything with as long as I could live with it. I am very careful training now. When I hurt it I was rolling no-gi with a friend of mine who was much bigger and stronger and was training for an MMA match.
The penalty is too great, so I don't use them, but other guys at the gym do.
Not worth it if you're doing this recreationally. If you have good training partners (read: people you can really roll technically with and in whom you would trust the care of your children), it's good to train with them (and the rest like heel hooks, etc) to learn to defend them. Anyone else, you have to really, really be careful. We all have jobs, classes, other stuff to do.
If you're doing this professionally or want to fight MMA, then you better get used to them.