New judging system tested in California

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                                New judging system tested in California

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                            <strong class="ArticleSource">[sports.yahoo.com]</strong>


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                    <p><strong>The Judging Problem</strong></p>

There are more complaints in mixed martial arts about judging than any other issue. The system is a hand-me-down from boxing’s 10-point must system. But too often in a three-round MMA fight, a fighter can inflict a great amount of punishment in winning a round, but lose the fight because he comes out on the wrong end of two coin-flip-close rounds, despite clearly doing more damage over the course of the bout.

As frustrated as the fans and the promoters are, perhaps nobody is as frustrated as the judges themselves. At times, the person with the most points on your scorecard is not the person you really believed won the fight, a distinction few fans watching comprehend.

There is no scoring system that can overcome bad judges, and it’s much easier to blame incompetent judges, who do exist, and occasional bad scoring, which will continue to exist no matter what system is in place, than to make a change that will lessen but not eliminate the problem.

A Potential Solution tested in California

Since the start of 2011, California has experimented with a half-point scoring system on its amateur shows, both to get feedback from its judges, and also to compile statistics. At the end of the year, when the stats are done, the findings will be presented to people like Marc Ratner, the vice-president for regulatory affairs at the Ultimate Fighting Championship, and the Association of Boxing Commissioners, to see if the system has more merit than the one in place.

How the Half Point Scoring System Works

A 10-9.5 is for a close round, like rounds one and three in Siver vs. Wiman, and rounds one and two in Jackson vs. Machida – both fights in which the person who ended up losing in the current system would most likely have won with the new system.
A 10-9 would be the score for a round that is competitive, but, you have no doubt who won.
A 10-8.5 would be for a round where one fighter dominated, but didn’t do enough for a 10-8, notably round two in Wiman vs. Siver, and round three in Machida vs. Jackson.
A 10-8 would be similar to how it is currently used.
A 10-7.5 for something more dominant than a normal 10-8 round, but for whatever reason, the fight isn’t stopped.

The new system also includes a fourth judge whose sole job is to award points based on criteria. If the three judges come out to a draw, a winner is determined based on a points system.
Knockdown: Four points
Near Submission: Four Points
Damaging strikes: Two Points
Dominant Position (back, mount or side control): Two Points
Takedown: One Point
Sweep: One Point

Results to Date

So far this year, 155 amateur fights in California have gone to a decision under these new rules. Of those, six, or 4 percent, had different winners based on half-point judging than they would have based on the current system. But there were 17 instances where one judge out of the three had a different winner based on half-points that he would have based on the current system.

“That’s going to occur in a very low percentage,” noted famed referee "Big" John McCarthy. “Maybe in the end, the half-point system will make a difference in 5 percent of the fights, but that’s 5 percent where the fighters are getting the right outcome instead of the wrong outcome.”

The Future

J.T. Steele, President at California Amateur Mixed Martial Arts Organization, considers this year part of a learning process, and wants a full year of statistics to learn advantages and disadvantages. Athletic commissions are usually interested in keeping the status quo. He feels if there is going to be a change, it will be spearheaded by the UFC itself.

“I think it comes down to the UFC,” said Steele. “They have the most valuable MMA sports property in the world. The second they think that the judging is starting to negatively affect their product, and if they believe the scoring system is part of the negative affect on their product, we’ll see changes. For any athletic commission, being graced with the UFC coming to their state is the best thing for the athletic commission, for a city, or a town and for a local economy. If they really think it’s damaging their product, we’ll see changes.”

Read entire article...
Read entire Scoring System...



 

Half point system will cause even more controversy than the ten point must system now. No matter how you slice it, somebodys gonna bitch about the result of a decision. Confusion over 10-9, 10-9.5s, 10-8.5s will only cause more controversy

JBob300 - Siver Wiman round 2 was a 10-8?

what the fuck are you smoking.

sure he took him down and landed some good shots, but it wasnt close to being finished other then by the technicality of the cut itself.

It might be a 10-8 in comparison to the 2 other rounds but its not fair to make that assumption when people try to take 10-8 rounds away from much more dominant performances.

10-8 to me means you dominated the fight EVERYWHERE. sitting in guard and landing a few strikes isnt a 10-8 even with a nasty cut (that was easily patched up and non reoccuring after the round)

BJs solution is best.
Significant strikes...everything else is rhetoric


Actually, he said Siver/Wiman round 2 was a good example of an 8.5.

Good reading chap.

JBob300 - Siver Wiman round 2 was a 10-8?

what the fuck are you smoking.

sure he took him down and landed some good shots, but it wasnt close to being finished other then by the technicality of the cut itself.

It might be a 10-8 in comparison to the 2 other rounds but its not fair to make that assumption when people try to take 10-8 rounds away from much more dominant performances.

10-8 to me means you dominated the fight EVERYWHERE. sitting in guard and landing a few strikes isnt a 10-8 even with a nasty cut (that was easily patched up and non reoccuring after the round)

BJs solution is best.
Significant strikes...everything else is rhetoric


your reading comprehension is a bit lacking isn't it?

i think this is better than what we have now....maybe not perfect yet, but still better. i think it'll force more of the "decision" fighters to push the pace more and go for the finish...

 The "4th judge" thing seems wacky.  Still leaves things up for debate.  Ie:  Near submission -- too subjective.



Also, anything that gives points for takedowns should also give points for DEFENDED takedowns

I do like the 4th judge with just points. 7.5 isn't necessary for 8.5 the 9.5 addition is good for those rounds that a opponent that scores just a few more points. Matter a fact the points Judge should be judging every round. The take down only making one point should be .5 Phone Post

Morgz -  The "4th judge" thing seems wacky.  Still leaves things up for debate.  Ie:  Near submission -- too subjective.

Also, anything that gives points for takedowns should also give points for DEFENDED takedowns

Defense also that's right. Actually just thinking about this is blowing my mind lmao. Near submissions should be outed because a near submission usually comes with an amazing escape so what's better? Phone Post

It won't make any difference. There's always 2 fighters in the ring, which means there will be two separate rabid, drooling, mouth-breathing groups of "fans" each cheering for their respective fighter. If fighter A wins a decision, the fans of fighter B will cry foul, complain of shitty judging, and demand changes to the scoring system.



If fighter B wins, the fans of fighter A will cry foul, complain of shitty judging, and demand changes to the scoring.



Thats the way its always been when it comes to fights that go the distance. One group will always feel robbed, the other will feel vindicated. It will never change until someone invents an automated, computerized method of scoring that takes away the "subjective" aspect of judging, i.e the human factor.




I like how you only get points for passing the guard. That will lead to less guard lnp. The 10-9.5 rounds are a great idea in my opinion. It wont completely fix judging, but it should lead to more aggression from the point fighters.

I think the best possible solution is just getting educated judges who know the difference between guard and mount, and who know that defending a takedown is more significant than getting held against the cage. Phone Post

 To be blunt:



The entire article does nothing to reinforce how the Half Point would help, because it won't.



It has nothing the Ten Point doesn't already have, and every complaint or discussion point in that article wouldn't be fixed if the judges had a .5 to put on the end of their scores.


Either change the judging criteria (octagon control etc etc bs) AND only allow ex-fighters (non affiliated with the competitors) to judge..

Or get rid of judges altogether, let the fights go until someone quits or the ref steps in.

 Cali is where we put our mack down.



Better than the current 10-point must garbage (but not as good as Pride 'damage').

Disagree? You're a terrorist.

RickMartelsArrogance - You can give incompetent judges tenths of a point to score with if you wanted to... TOO BAD IT WONT CHANGE SHIT IF THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE BEING PAID TO WATCH AND SCORE.


we have a winner...........

I agree, unless they change out the people doing the judging nothing is going to get better/change.

 Half points are really a study in psychology more than a real change but if it works better then great.  

This is great Phone Post

Why is it called a 10 point system when only 3 of them are ever used? Should be called the retarded 3 point system

Rookie Fighter - 
Morgz -  The "4th judge" thing seems wacky.  Still leaves things up for debate.  Ie:  Near submission -- too subjective.



Also, anything that gives points for takedowns should also give points for DEFENDED takedowns
Defense also that's right. Actually just thinking about this is blowing my mind lmao. Near submissions should be outed because a near submission usually comes with an amazing escape so what's better? Phone Post
Agree...I didn't think about that either.  If you are giving points for sub attempts, there should be some reward for sub defense, no?  Although I could see the argument for giving more points to a sub attempt (or near sub, whatever that is) but it's still too subjective.  One judges "near sub" is another judge's "failed attempt".

 

Uncle Justice -  To be blunt:



The entire article does nothing to reinforce how the Half Point would help, because it won't.



It has nothing the Ten Point doesn't already have, and every complaint or discussion point in that article wouldn't be fixed if the judges had a .5 to put on the end of their scores.



If I recall correctly, didn't you have a really good thread addressing this exact point?  If so, a link would be good.

 

X_Rated - 
Uncle Justice -  To be blunt:



The entire article does nothing to reinforce how the Half Point would help, because it won't.



It has nothing the Ten Point doesn't already have, and every complaint or discussion point in that article wouldn't be fixed if the judges had a .5 to put on the end of their scores.





 Agree with Dallas on this one. The problem is not the criteria, but rather the incompetency of the judges. 



IMO: If we are moving to a .5 based system, might as well just judge the fight according to Pride rules and judge the fight in its entirety rather than round by round
If God exists, that will come next.... one day.