"Shawn Ramage (no offense, but WHO?!) ahead of Couture in the top pound for pound.
Ambriz, Roberts, and Bobish atop the SHW's is a bit strange, though I will admit this is by far the hardest weight division to rank.
love him or hate him, Ricco deserves at least a couple spots higher, and Sylvia as well in my opinion.
Having McGee over Herring makes no sense to me. Herring just beat McGee and I don't always agree that one fighter beating another means that he should be ranked higher, but in this case Herring has clearly done far more throughout his career than McGee has as well, so it's really no contest between the two."
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Ok, first of all, i have the utmost respect for Couture...but, he has lost twice in Japan against unranked opponents and just because he stepped DOWN and won the title in a lighter weight class doesn't make him that great of a PFP fighter.
Ramage weighs 125lbs. and has beat guys that weigh twice as much as he does. He is a TRUE PFP fighter.
Ambriz has the best record of all the SHW's. Roberts has proven himself and Bobish has too. Most or all of their losses have come at lighter weights and do not count against their rankings in the SHW div.
Ricco is a very good fighter but losses don't advance you in the rankings. Sylvia is already very high. They're not ranked based on their talent...they're ranked based on their record.
Herring beat mcGee by a split dec. His record really isn't that much better than McGee's. McGee is higher because of his win over Rizzo. He had a big loss against Sylvia but Herring had two losses in a row and McGee is his first big win a while. One more win for Herring and i'll have him atop McGee. Also, inactivity or another loss by McGee will drop him under Herring.
I also think Herring is a much better figher overall but his record is just now starting to bring him back into contention.
Well, Mr.Petruzelli, Severn is the only name opponent you've beaten. he's old and you should have sub'd, KO'd him or at least got a TKO. Then it would be impressive...yet still, the guy is like nearly 50 years old now.
Your two losses were by sub...one to Mario Neto and the other to Gan McGee. Neto has a sub par record and McGee was a nobody then. Let's see your name in the headlines winning in a big fight or tourney. Then you'll be ranked.
LOL at Hughes and Couture being #9 and #10 in the P4P rankings. After reading that I realized the next 10 pages of rankings were definately not worth reading.
Vitor not in top 10 but Machida is b/c he beat Franklin??? think not
lots of good info though and well thought out obviously
Vitor is listed as the champ.Correctly.
That Ludwig is first at 155 is bizzarre.
Every time I look at this list I wonder why Jason Black...on Militechs team can't get a shot in the UFC.
"They're not ranked based on their talent...they're ranked based on their record."
That explains it, I didn't know that.
Your rankings are really comprehensive, I was pleasantly surprised to see Kassim Annan, Cyrille Diabaté and Kazeka Muniz in there but...
I was a little surprise to see Thomas Hytten in there when he was beaten by Robbie Olivier who was in turn beaten by Jean Silva yet neither of them are in there (unless I missed them)
Are your rankings based purely on records and not on quality of opponents?
DROC
Seth, your arguement is convincing but...i still would like to see you win a few more or at least fight in a big event that gets good publicity.
either that or just beat any fighter i have listed in your weight class
sounds like you have a bright future ahead of you! looking forward to hearing more about you
peace bradda
"That Ludwig is first at 155 is bizzarre."
I simply recognized him as the linear champion since i had Pulver as the legit World champ after he beat Uno.
The fact that he KO'd Pulver when he was still the linear champ gives him this spot. It does not mean he is the best at that weight class. Obviously that honor goes to Penn, for now.
"Are your rankings based purely on records and not on quality of opponents?"
Both. A fighter could have been beaten early in his career but that doesnt mean he won't be ranked above those fighters or that they themselves might not even be ranked.
It all depends on their recent performance as well as overall record and quality of opponents.
How can Shawn Ramage be on the P4P list when he's not even listed as #1 in his own division?
Logically, anyone above Ramage on the flyweight list should be above him on the P4P list, no?
Then you don't understand what the P4P list is.
The P4P list is based on performance AND skills that have been proven beyond what the others in your weight class and in other weight classes can handle.
Ramage weighs 125lbs. and has beaten fighters twice his weight. How many other top ten fighters have those kind of credentials?
Uh...OK
So if there are 2 better flyweights than Ramage, IYO, then they are only better if they are fighting other 125ers?
I'm assuming you placed Ramage on the P4P list because he beat the 200 pound newcomer in Gladiator Challenge. Is it your opinion then, that the other two fighters above Ramage on the flyweight list couldn't have done the same?
If it is, then fine, but why do you see Ramage having enough skill to beat 200 pounders, but not enough skill to beat those other two 125 pounders?
"They're not ranked based on their talent...they're ranked based on their record."
If that's true, I'm interested to hear how Mike Bourke comes ahead of Vince Lucero.
I think Seth Petruzelli should definitely be on that heavyweight list after beating big Dan Severn in convincing fashion.
"I'm assuming you placed Ramage on the P4P list because he beat the 200 pound newcomer in Gladiator Challenge. Is it your opinion then, that the other two fighters above Ramage on the flyweight list couldn't have done the same? If it is, then fine, but why do you see Ramage having enough skill to beat 200 pounders, but not enough skill to beat those other two 125 pounders?"
Who else would you suggest be in the P4P top ten?
There are a lot of up and comers but no one else is dominating. I put him because there really wasn't any other choices. He is ranked in the top ten of his weight class and has proven he can beat guys much bigger than himself.
There are quite a few good Japanese champs and top contenders in SHOOTO but they aren't dominating or awesome.
Mamoru Yamaguchi comes to mind but most of his wins are by dec. and he lost the featherweight title by sub.
Who is dominating from Brazil? From Europe? From the USA? If you have a suggestion i would prefer it than reading all this whining.
Ribiero and Arona from Brazil are good but they haven't really proved themselves worthy of the top ten P4P yet.
To be honest, i put Shawn there because i wanted to give a contender, who has proven himself, the praise he deserves. I know he isn't a champion or great fighter and i knew it would stir up controversy and complaints but hey, at least now i can get some good ideas on who else better deserves a ranking.
Suggestions are appreciated.
Wait, you knew it would stir controversy, but it's whining? Hehe. I guess you figured everyone would just post, "I agree"? :)
For me, I look at the top guys in any given weight class and envision how they would do in the weight class above.
We know Couture could go up to HW and beat most guys, (he's already done it).
If you figure Bustamante and Henderson to be top guys at 185, then we know they could beat a crap load of 205ers. Dan beat Yvel, Minotauro, and Babalu in one night.
I have no problem believing that Tito Ortiz and Vanderlei could beat many HWs.
It's not a stretch to think Hughes could beat a lot of the higher ranked 185ers.
BJ Penn already moved up to beat the best guy in the higher weight class.
Ivan Menjivar moved from 145 to 155 on a week's notice and went the distance with Shooto champ Shaolin Ribiero
Minotauro made Bob Sapp tap out.
Sakuraba hangs in alright against guys who are naturally heavier. He's beat Quinton and Randleman.
Yuki Kondo is another guy who does pretty well despite being undersized for the guys he fights.
Hey, I got nothing against Shawn Ramage, but if there are guys fighting some of the best in higher divisions, that's gotta be better than Ramage fighting a newbie from a higher division.
pretty good.
Guys, be sure to vote in the UG top 10 after Pride Bushido.
Peter P
most of the guys you mentioned i already have in the top tne...the few you mentioned that i dont arent really worthy
do you have any suggestions or not?
besides, Couture did not start at LHW...he started at HW and moved DOWN to LHW
he lost terribly to Enson and he also lost to Zaza
he recently lost to Ricco
he's realy not that great for P4P...not just because he beat Tito