"New" vs "Old"

This is really a thread about the nessessity of scripture. so I was reading on another thread about some folks who believe that they want to be like Jesus, but they don't want to follow the New Testament, just some of what Jesus said, that they identify with and feel important about.

But, what on earth are all of the other books there to teach you, and why were they canonized, why is there a canon at all, if all we need are the words of Jesus from the gospels? The writers of the NT I believe thought they were teaching in the spirit of Jesus, and I think most christians would agree with that. It seems to be that you would want to know about those who were close to Jesus and taught in his spirit, as well as what they taught. I mean, that is, if you believe the NT.

Regardless, I dunno what I think of the "new testament" anymore. With the time Ive been spending in the Tanakh, I begin to wonder if the "new testament" has anything at all to offer that I don't already have completely available to me within the "old" system.

The more I begin to compare the front of the Bible, the "Old Testament," with the new, the more I seem to realize I have found the answer to the question, What does God want?

It is to do this and not that. Eat this and not that. Behave like this and don't behave like that. It is a perfect script for life, it fufills the emotional truth, intellectual truth and spiritual truth.

Without this canon, I wouldn't be able to make this kind of a judgement. we cannot use our hearts only to discern truth because the heart is decietful and weak.

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on this, unless i am simply writing incoherant babbling.

OWOWOWOW

well for starters. you eliminate Christ and Christ's purpose by living a life based upon the old test "system" which we all know is "the LAW".

as a counter to the law i will offer the question what is really sin?

according to the old test if you do not kill someone you have not sinned.

however according to the new test. you can not kill someone and still sin. that is a big difference.

according to the old test. eating certain meats is a sin.

however according to the new test.it is not.

sin is missing the mark that God has put into place for everyone to hit. any time you miss that mark, you sin.

I am really not sure what you mean by "according to the old test if you do not kill someone you have not sinned"

Pharoah said he had sinned before God by not letting the israelites go, he sinned by hardening his heart.

You sin by breaking an oath you've made, by speaking against the Lord one sins, by making an idol you sin.

There are so many instances of sinning that do not involve killing, I think that I must misunderstand what you mean.

Anyway, the canon of scripture is what I am using to determine how to move forward, and those people who do not, but choose the religion and what they think it is supposed to be , where does this come from? With no scripture, you have no knowledge of this person.

I'm not sure I'm following you Josh. Wouldnt you say the book of Acts is pretty important? Pauls episels,Peter,James, Jude, the episels of John. What about the book of Revelations? Theres words in red in that also.

yours in Christ

sherm

joshua i was refering to the commandment of thou shall not murder. i wasnt talking about sin in general or all the other sins.

see in the OT they were judged by the LAw. so if a person did not committe murder they had not broken that law! and in regards to THAT commandment had not sinned

however in th NT we are commanded to Love our neighbors. so simply not murdering someone is not enough we have to actively seek out our neighbors to love them! not doing that is sinning!

yeah but the law is much bigger than the ten commandments. It dictates ethical and moral behavior. It leads you to humility and hospitality to strangers. The law and the law of love are not separate from one another. Love, Justice, Mercy, these are all qualities that you can find within the law.

Sherm,

Just because the words are in red does not mean that Jesus himself spoke them. Paul, Luke, whomever, actually wrote what Jesus said. So while they may be qouting him, its not as if they are qouting some conversation such as in the gospels, but rather speaking in the spirit. That is the difference. Regardless, what i am saying is that without these books, if we do away with them, we dont know who we are or what God wants from us, its simply us drawing parallels between our minds and what we find that we would like to identify with in spirituality around us.

joshuaB...i will only warn you that you are walking on very very thin ice if you start basing your life on the old test law!

the bible is very clear that once you start using it as a guide you have to keep it every jot and titel(sp?)

Prejah

thanks for your concern. I am concerned about it as you are, I do not like having to question what I have been taught is the truth for a long long time. I accepted it as such, and now the point I am at leads me to ask questions which are going to have to put me on thin ice. I cant help it, I have the questions, to get the answers I need to move to where they are. If they happen to be on thin ice, so be it, I want the truth.

"sin is missing the mark that God has put into place for everyone to hit. any time you miss that mark, you sin."

excellent way to put it Josh!!

josh...also how does falling back onto the law bring you closer to Jesus and bring your life closer to being christ like?

the bible is very clear that once you start using it as a guide you have to keep it every jot and titel(sp?)

And that means no more pizzas with meat on them! :-)

I dont know that it would bring me closer to Christ, I dont know that my life needs to be more christ like. Perhaps God simply wants us to keep the law, not become conformed to the image of a Godman.

Wow Josh, that's seriously the first thing you have ever written on this board that's shocked me!

Josh,you should question anything and everything.Seek the truth.I do believe both the Old and New when they say that you will find it.Having questions is good.Seek God with all that you have.I also recommend that you read the book of Hebrews to answer your questions better.It will help you at the very least.

Joshua,

I am not sure I understand you completely, but in my opinion, your relationship with the old testement, has been defined by the new. It has become special and wonderful in your eyes, because of the understanding of Christ, and the work of the Spirit in your life.

I would like to talk to you more about this, please email me. pinnedagain2001@yahoo.com

My suggestion is don't make sweeping decisions or generalizations. Continure to pray for God's voice through the scripture, and read what you want. I feel the opposite of you right now, and I can't seem to read anything but the gospels or acts, but I know that God speaks to others and myself through the other books, he is just drawing me in a different direction now.

the rev

Pretjah- Do you think that the commandment to love originated with Jesus and not with the Covenant?

The ot and the nt are both very imprtant in the lives of the saints. the ot (commonly referred toas the law) is what drives us to Christ. It shows us that we are guilty for without the law there is not sin. if there were no command to not covet then if i coveted it would not be sin. (read romans 7) then in the nt we see the solution for our problem. what sin the law could not do weak as it was Chrsit did on the cross. christianity is not a set of dos and donts. true christianity is marked by continual striving to know God for who He truly is. The God who is high and lifted up, who the angels continually cry holy holy holy Lord God of sabaoth.The God who spoke the world into existence, The God who with a thought could crush all human kind the God who sustains the righteous. He is a stronghold to all who believe in His name, this God wants all the saints to know Him. that is why He has given us His word. He has revealed certain things to be true about him and we just have to seek Him out. The true purpose of christianity is to glorify God. that is His purpose for everything He does. If you study the scriptures you will see this. why did he create the heavens and the earth? why did he create man? why did he elect to save some of us and why does he choose to send some to hell? it is all for the same reason: so that He would be glorified for who he is. He is a jealous God and he says the he will not give his glory to another. I know i went a little off base here, im sorry but back to the topic at hand. od and new testaments are equally important to the saints learning. though being on this side of the corss we are not bound to the law if we be in Christ for he has set us free not only from the penalty of sin but also the bondage of it. he is not only our justifier but our sanctifier as well. we are only bound to the law if we are dead ( in our trepasses and sins) however the old testament still offers a lot of great truths of the nature and gloriousness and awesomeness and incomprehensibleness and unfathomableness of the God that we as saints serve and can know if we will but seek him.

Tim/John,

You both have mail. Its the same mail, I wanted to explain a bit more whats going on and ask you both some questions.

I have replied my friend, hey don't worry so much. These are hard things and learned slowly.

the rev

I didnt get any mail