This goes for BJ Penn too and others whose standing striking consists almost 100% of boxing and not muay thai boxing. Boxing has far less relevance in mma than most people think. A boxing structure is most effective only if the person has insane knock out power (think Fedor). In most other cases, there are huge deficits including:
1. Inability to see and respond to head kicks (see Nate Diaz last night). The more crouched over boxing stance leaves fighters open to head kicks (see Anderson v. Belfort)
2. Inability to see and respond to techniques such as knees, flying knees, etc.
3. Inability to check and/or capitalize on opponents leg kicks. Most boxing based mma'ers simply pretend leg kicks don't exist.
4. Inability to be comfortable with elbow angles from standing, the clinch, and on the ground
When's the last time the Diaz brothers boxing made a difference in one of their fights? The lack of thai boxing combined with a weak clinch as far as wrestling and judo throws explains their lack of recent success in the big leagues. Ronda's judo from the clinch always gives her a big advantage from there, but she is danger of getting KTFO from Cyborg (for example) before she gets there.
Not true with BJ; he's used kicks, knees, and elbows. 
In Ronda's defense, she's only been doing this for a couple of years. 
Nate has the worst foot movement I ever seen.
He looked like he was fighting underwater last night.
Diaz brothers only have hands. Nate will keep getting owned hard if he doesn't evolve.
The Diaz bros chins have been able to make up for this deficiency in the past, but it obviously can't be relied on as heavily any more. They have the endurance to throw kicks all night long too.
Great post OP, voted up
The Diaz's train with Joe Schilling & Kevin Ross...I just think that they prefer not to fight with that style and like to box as 1 dimensional as it may be...They Like to take the leg kicks and try make you box with them because of their confidence in their hands and sub game...to be fair there is not many who have 'good' Thai game at the top level...even though they are introduced by Bruce Buffer as a 'Muay Thai Kickboxer'...however it has come along way...(See Duke Roufus)
TheBlackFist - stupid thread, MT is a waste of timeLol I hope that was sarcasm.
TheBlackFist - stupid thread, MT is a waste of time
2/10
Troll harder son.
Ya, BJ never used kicks.....
Also: Rhonda's trainer has had some Muay Thai fights and isn't just a boxing trainer. But decent hands seem a better thing to work on for a swing-into-clinch and throw/sub fighter with no striking training.
^ a shitty "bjj slow twitch flexibilty" high kick isn't muay thai. Royce used high kicks too, but he wasn't a muay thai fighter. BJ used a boxing structure even if he tossed his leg up there for a high kick once every blue moon.
jdindiana - Ya, BJ never used kicks.....
Haha, thats the first and only only kick of that fight if you recall.
not every fighter is going to be good with kicks. you individually have to figure out what mma moves work for you the best and doesn't work for you.
FatBuddha - This goes for BJ Penn too and others whose standing striking consists almost 100% of boxing and not muay thai boxing. Boxing has far less relevance in mma than most people think. A boxing structure is most effective only if the person has insane knock out power (think Fedor). In most other cases, there are huge deficits including:Absolutely agree... But the also refuse to try and deal with wrestling so its really nothing new.
1. Inability to see and respond to head kicks (see Nate Diaz last night). The more crouched over boxing stance leaves fighters open to head kicks (see Anderson v. Belfort)
2. Inability to see and respond to techniques such as knees, flying knees, etc.
3. Inability to check and/or capitalize on opponents leg kicks. Most boxing based mma'ers simply pretend leg kicks don't exist.
4. Inability to be comfortable with elbow angles from standing, the clinch, and on the ground
When's the last time the Diaz brothers boxing made a difference in one of their fights? The lack of thai boxing combined with a weak clinch as far as wrestling and judo throws explains their lack of recent success in the big leagues. Ronda's judo from the clinch always gives her a big advantage from there, but she is danger of getting KTFO from Cyborg (for example) before she gets there.
Can't Express how much better I think Nate would be able to do if he wasn't alwats trying to emulate his brother.
No, the Diaz brothers flaw is they lack proper foot work and over all boxing technique. I love how ppl like to trash boxing using a fighter with poor technique to begin with. Its like when Rogan points to Rampage as using a traditional boxing attack. Rampage has terrible boxing and regressed quite a bit when he stopped training with Jaunito.
It's also crazy to think that they dont train any sort of Thai Boxing. They train it but choose not to use it. They arent just training boxing and jitz all day.
I think both are needed at the highest level. Boxing is much more effective and important in MMA than in muay thai due to the smaller gloves and relative lack of kicks, but if a fighter trains nothing but boxing, he will fall prey to the problems mentioned by the OP.
That's why the top fighters train both. Even B.J. and Fedor trained in muay thai. I remember Fedor going to Holland repeatedly to train with Hoost, who was impressed enough with his standup to predict he would out-strike Cro Cop.
A lot of keyboard warriors up in here! It'd be one thing if these guys didn't train vs MT guys but they do. Some guys are just far better at certain aspects of MMA and so they focus on those things.
A lot of guys like BJ would rather not throw kicks because they're more likely to be taken down.