Nightwing Rant

No secret that I'm pissed at the-powers-that-be for the way Nightwing has been treated by DC for the past 3 years....and still being treated.

Here's a great rant (next post) by soda about the character...the full thread may be found at

Let me take this, and your point about Nightwing in Infinite Crisis a step further.

To me, as a long time Nightwing fan (he's my favorite DCU character) Infinite Crisis is how Nightwing should be written, that book gave you the template for a kick-ass reimagining of Dick Grayson. Essentially, Nightwing isn't "Batman-lite", that's what the golden age Dick Grayson was, that's not what Nightwing is. Kal-L acknowledged it, so much so that in IC #3 he openly stops and questions whether what they're doing is right, considering what a great guy Dick Grayson is. As Yoda pointed out, even Alexander Luthor called him a saint in a land of sinners. Nightwing should be the Captain America of the DCU, it's the one role that the DCU has never had before (mostly because Supes, Bats and WW are many things, but none of them are Cap).

You know that the slogan to marvel's upcoming summer crossover, civil war, is "whose side are you on?" I read a lot of marvel U stuff, and to me, that's the most pointless and ridiculous advertising slogan that the mind of man has ever conceived, and the next time I run into Jeph Loeb at con, I'll be sure to tell him that. Why? Because it's the marvel U, and if there are two sides to anything in that U, I know which side I'm on: I'm on whatever side Captain America is on. I don't need to know the issue. I don't need to know whose on what side. it could be everyone in the entire marvel U on one side, and cap, by himself, on the other side. Doesn't matter. I'm on whatever side Captain America is on. If I'm Peter Parker, the point at which I'm realizing something stinks is when Tony Stark asks me to join his side, but to "not tell cap about it." Dude. Not tell cap? In the marvel U, if you're on the other team from captain america, that means one of three things:

-you're either the bad guy

-you're going to lose

-or both

To me, that issue of TT, and in Infinite Crisis #5 and #6, that was Nightwing as the Captain America of the DCU, in that, I'm reading it thinking "yep, that's exactly what a great hero would do". He might not have powers, but he gets together what resources he's got, and they might lose, and they might die, but he goes headlong into it anyway, and he kicks Alexander Luthor in the face.

That's how I want to see Nightwing written. Someone once told me that Dick isn't the great detective Tim Drake is. That's true, I think Tim Drake is the logical heir to the mantle of Batman, if anyone is, Tim is the next world's greatest detective. I actually agreed with the decision, during knightfall, not to make Dick the new Batman, for two reasons:

  • Dick is his own man.

  • the mantle of Batman is rightfully Tim's, he's going to grow up to be the world's greatest detective, the next Batman.

Tim Drake is the "Batman-lite" of the DCU, Nightwing isn't the detective Tim is, so what's Dick Grayson? Dick Grayson is the Julius Ceasar and Alexander the Great of the DCU, in that he's the great battlefield commander. You look around the DCU, and Dick has all the qualifications:

  • he's lead two superhero teams (Teen titans, outsiders). There's no one in the DCU with more proven leadership skills.

  • no one has more experience than he does, he's been doing this since he was 8, and he's a grown man now, even in comic-time, that's a lot of years of adventuring.

  • everyone likes him. Batman knows what to do in any given situation, and he can give people instructions, but they don't like him, and they might not necessarily trust his motives. As Batman said in IC #4, Dick has kept all those bridges, everyone likes him. When Nightwing tells other people to do something, they can confidently follow their instructions.

The point of Infinite Crisis was to look at the flaws of Batman, Superman and WW, to show how, each in their own way, none of the DCU's "big three" was qualified for the mantle of leadership, because as much as they were the world's greatest heroes, they were unable to bound together in a time of crisis, and have people trust them. Infinite Crisis also showed us that Nightwing is the best leader in the DCU, he doesn't have the defects of character that the big 3 do. I can't see why this very promising story idea hasn't been developed OYL.

"Seriously, I am of the very firm opinion that if you want anything done right in the DCU, you turn to Nightwing"

-Fabian Nicieza

superman is the hero of DC! How was he to blame for being brain washed?

How was he to blame for being brain washed?

The implication in IC and that he knew and did nothing.

Superman did what he could but batman on the other hand is a fuck up!

Watch your mouth before I slap it! How is Batman a fuck up? You gotta look out for #1, baby. He's in there with all the super-powered beings and all he has is his mind to stay one step ahead.

"Watch your mouth before I slap it! How is Batman a fuck up? You gotta look out for #1, baby. He's in there with all the super-powered beings and all he has is his mind to stay one step ahead."

Lets see Brother Eye...I think that's a huge fuck up if you ask me.

Batman didn't really mess up with brother eye. Max high-jacked it.

I guess that because the bridge I built came down in an earthquake and killed someone standing under it would mean I fucked up. Hmmm...

and I was only kidding about slapping people. lol

Batman only knows how to build sensors that can track a door opening from the outside but not if someone opens it from the indside. Therefore it was easy for max to hijack Brother eye and exploit it, however batman was fully justified in creating brother eye for its intended purpose seeing how them super powered folks were acting as of late.

The whole "Lets build stuff to kill all the members of the Justice league" stroylines would make me trust Bat man a bit less.

Does Fabian Nicieza have a exclusive deal to Marvel? Maybe his rant is a way of wanting to do Nightwing?

I thought Batman was told to stop being a dick in tower of babal.

Maybe his rant is a way of wanting to do Nightwing?

AFAIK, the rant isn't from Fabian.

I hate to disagree with everyone on this forum, but I liked the Devin Grayson run of Nightwing (having only read the stories starting with when he joined the mob).

The six issues where Nightwing joined the mob is 1/5 of Devin's run. It is necessary to read the preceding 4/5 of Devin's run (the previous 2 1/2 years) to understand why Nightwing joined the mob, and consequently why the mob storyline has some significant flaws.

lol@ "Batman only knows how to build sensors that can track a door opening from the outside but not if someone opens it from the indside"

I hate how NW is protrayed.

And I think NW is the logical choice to be the heir to Batman, but he shouldnt take it.

I dont agree that Tim is a better detective, yes its true Tim figured out Bruce is really Batman, etc...

But like it was said in the rant Dick has been doing this since he was 8, in other words, he has been training with the world's best detective since he was 8, so Tim shouldnt be better.


Batman is inferior to Nightwing physically .Yes he is stronger etc but Nightwin movs like Daredevil and Spidey.Batman is cerebral like Tim Drake is they are not gifted like Dick.

correction: they are not gifted acrobats like Dick is.

The only thing Tim should do better than NW (at this point in Tim's career) is computers.

NW should be a much better fighter, acrobat, leader and detective.

Most of it is based on the fact that he has been a superhero for over 15 years while Tim has been doing it for about half that time.

nightwing is dead