I'm wondering if I may have been neglecting my ezikiel choke from the mount and from the guard. Especially from the guard.
Since I'm doing only no-gi grappling these days, I really never do this choke. However, in the last few sparring sessions, I've tried simply putting a forearm across the throat from the top of the mount and the bottom of the guard when my opponents have been very defencive and kept their elbows tight to their hips. It's not quite the ezikiel choke but at least it seems to get them out of the defensive posture with their arms and I can climb for armbars or other submissions. It doesn't seem to be a finisher as much as a setup.
Does this make sense? In particular, is anyone of you guys using the ezikiel choke, or simply putting a forearm across the throat to get reaction from under the guard? With the gi on, you have the standard collar choke from the guard to use against guys with a tight low posture (assuming that they don't have their arms on your biceps). I'm wondering if the ezikiel choke (or just the forearm pushing under the throat) could work as a replacement for the collar choke when you don't have the gi.
Or would it make sense not to really wrap your other arm around the back of the head, but just pull on the back of the head with your hand - like you're doing a gogo plata with your arms?
Do you understand what I'm rambling about? It's getting late here, so I might not be very clear right now :)
Regards,
jonpall.
I think you are wanting a "folding arm choke" in this situation.
The arm across the neck feeds into your armpit. The other arm goes behind the neck and feeds into the bend of your own elbow. Apply to arteries instead of windpipe. Apply by
extending arms after they are folded. Some guys will be too thick for you to do this, some won't.
Gaittec's description is pretty much how I do it too.
Although, I end up using it mainly as a setup for other subs anyway.
The variation I use (from mount) is putting the side of a closed fist on the adam's apple, while gipping my own elbow with the other hand that is snaked under the head.
Ex: left arm under his head, grabs crook of right elbow. right hand in fist on adam's apple. Pull your shoulders back, and elbows go out. wait a sec and usually a tap, but sometimes an upa.
Dogg
So can the ezikiel choke (or simply putting a forearm under the throat) be used instead of the standard collar choke, as an opener for f.ex. the armbar, when you don't have the gi?
Like I said, with the gi, it can be very helpful to open up things with the collar choke, but when you don't have a gi to grab, perhaps a forearm in the throat can basically replace the collar choke as an opener technique.
Hmmm?
Yes. On Bas' career DVDs, you can see throughout his career he is always crossfacing people with his forearm, and other people do it to him. Number one, it creates space, and number two, it stops him from looking at you., which is always desirable.
I don't really like to do the no gi ezekiel on the bottom. It's too easy to defend, I think. A good feint is always believable, so you have to actually be able to tap someone with it if they don't do certain specific things to defend.
Well perhaps you don't have to do a full blown ezikiel choke from the bottom of the guard? You could just push your forearm under the throat and use your other arm to pull behind his head - kind of like when doing the "gogo plata" choke.
I would rather not tie up both of my arms, when I think the increased benefit over using just one arm under his throat is very limited. On bottom, finishing this kind of choke is hard because you can only use your arm strength. On top, you can use your weight and grapevines effectively.
Well, for a whole lot of submissions from the guard, you need both arms. You could do the following as an idea I just got:
Grab behind the head and a wrist. If his forearms are lying on your stomach and/or chest, you put a foot on the hip and climb up to the high guard.
Against a decent grappler, he will not put his forearms on your body, but rather on your sides. So you release his wrist and put your forearm under his throat, still holding on to his head. I'm assuming that he has to bring one or both arms to the center again to defend the choke, so when he does, you climb to the high guard again.
(Side note: Some guys, when you grab their wrist, will try to rip their arms free, often ending with their wrist a bit to the side, although usually not on the ground. Then you can sometimes go for a Kimura.)
Again, a thought.
Thanks for the response.
I'd definately have to agree against the benefit of the move. Just an opinion though. It may be a mild distraction, but without the gi sleeves to grab, it seems like the person would be able to break free of the hold too easily and posture up. I think the benefits you're talking about can just as easily be gained by head control(as described by bravo) or an overhook grip w/ a single arm head control with your other arm. These moves provide a lot more control for you to work more suitable finishes.