Do they exist? If so which do you reccommend. Thanks in advance
tsunetani....thanks. Karo, I should have known. Any others ?
Yeah i own the Karo DVDs. They are great.
Just wanted to TTT this to see if people had any other recommendations.
I don't have a DVD to recommend, but Swain and Jefferson put out a book "Clinch Fighting for Mixed Martial Arts".
You can buy it at www.clinch.tv
Also, if you want to see some instruction video of no-gi O Soto Gari, Ippon Seoi-Nage, O Goshi, you can see some video on Dan Camarillo's website.
i would not recommend any no-gi instructionals for judo.
i'd recommend studying judo in a good place with a good coach and doings lots of randori with good players, i.e. getting thrown.
You should learn the proper way to do techniques, the foundation is the same. The specialization for each player comes with time later and its wrong to study that first.
There are no shortcuts in judo as many people want to believe.
Karo's DVD is just his way to do techniques and is definitely not ideal for everyone, let alone beginners. A great judo DVD to start with is either Mike Swain's or David William's who posts here, especially for beginners.
Swain and Jefferson's book "the Clinch" is really good. I can, at the very least, promise that for the money you spend on it, you will at the very lest pick-up a few things you like and understand right off the bat and several others over time. The best part of it is that it does a very good job going over grips and ways to hold and trap.
judom's answer is accurate for people who are fortunate enough to have that kind of judo club nearby.. but even the best athlete at the best club needs and uses outside sources (books and videos).
where can u get the aoki vid?
u the man now dawg! thanks!
"i would not recommend any no-gi instructionals for judo.
i'd recommend studying judo in a good place with a good coach and doings lots of randori with good players, i.e. getting thrown."
Someone looking to just add some things for MMA purposes probably doesn't have the time to do that.
Although I do agree with you that, ideally, that would be the best approach.
there was a judo book i was reading earlier this week that was priunted in the 80's showing judo throws without the gi, but i can't think of it righ tnow, but the karo instructionals are great, and i own the shinya instructional, and i find that one the most resourceful.
but as already stated in this thread, the best way to apporach this to have a firm understanding of judo, and the mechanics behind it.
"Greco Roman Wrestling" by Martell, good book.
I adapt Judo throws to no-gi, but like Judom advises, learn Judo, then adapt. Otherwise go straight to G-R if you don't have time to dedicate to some Judo training.
i'll look up the swain book.
Nowaydo, I agree with much of what you are saying, there is no doubt that a very high caliber wrestler will tend to have the gripping advantage in a no-gi scenario, but that is not always the case. here's why..
most of the top judoka in the US were also very good wreslters, many having won at the folk level and quite a few have done very well after HS too. NOt to say that HS is the highest levels, but they do understand the general use of no-gi grips which is a lot more than can be said for most wrestlers coming to judo.
lets do some trickle down theory here...
in other words, most decent judoka are also okay/decent wreslters with some understanding of no-gi grips. conversly, the vast majority of elite wrestlers in the USA have minimal ideas about gi-gripping, which leads to lower level wrestlers having virtually no idea at all.
in other words, in the USA, the judoka has a higher theory-based chance to trasition into a no-gi setting successfully than a wrester to a gi setting.
this, however, is thrown out the windown in part. that is becuase wrestling's base is so much larger and they have so many more athletes and a much larger talent pool. so, every once in awhile you will find a wrestler who makes the trasition fairly smoothly to a high level in judo while that will almost never happen in the reverse.
I do not know enough about the Russian and Cuban training no-gi. I know the Russians train sambo with judo at the same time, and maybe they mix it up with the freestyle, greco, and other wrestling forms they have, but that's beyond my knowldge.
What I can say is that in the USA the numbers of judokas is very small. The numbers of wrestlers is very large. Nearly all the top judoka I know of wrestled in HS becuase it was good for their judo and a way for them to be an athlete in the school. Most of them did fairly well, at least wrestled varsity for multiple years and at the very lest nearly qualified for state. Maybe that puts them outside the top-25% of wrestlers who go on to college wrestling. Some were much better than that though and would be top 5% too.
So, talent pool wise, wrestling has all the edge. Not to say that the top athletes in US Judo are not as athletic as those in wrestling, but that the depth is just not there beyond the 1, 2, and maybe 3 spots except at 73kg.
All the same, talent is not going to take somebody with no to little knowldge of gi gripping and the rules of judo and put them into the top few in US Judo.
There is a young man right now at SJSU who was a greco scholarship athlete for USA Wrestling who left that to go to SJSU and return to judo. He was one of the best greco players in the USA, but the transition to judo is not the easiest for him and his results have been mixed and somewhat dissappointing for him up to now. The rules, the movement, the gripping, the penalty system, the addition of submissions and much more make it a very complicated change of pace. There is no question that he has the talent, the work ethic, the physical gifts, and desire to be #1 in the USA at 60kg, but like I said, the change is not so simple.
one thing to add, i have found that doing thai neck wrestling has TREMENDOUSLY helped my no-gi judo game.i really get a sense of a person's body movement, and when time and know when to explode into that throw. i've never wreslted so i dunno if it's the same or nt.. but to tell to you the truth i have dumped some really good wreslters with muay thai throws as well so you may want too look at that.
thanks for response, i agree that many dont have an idea on what to do with a really good thai clincher.
The majority of folkstyle wrestlers at the high school level don't have much more than the most basic level of handfighting & pummeling. - They're shooters! It's all about the lower body unless you're a hvy weight.