No Gi Passing Guard Submissions

Last night while rolling came across a cheap submission while passing guard.
I used pressure on the thighs to open guard opponnent shifted on his side for a scissor sweep I slid my leg across his shin bone and yanked very hard on his foot right around his baby toe area.
I am 235lb so I had him pinned here pretty good never done this move before it seems quite handy anyone else here use it.
Cheapest move ever!

Joe Charles used to do that all the time. No one liked rolling with him because he was always going for cheap moves like that.

Great guy, but you would always be in pain after rolling with him.

is it actually a 'cheap' move? it is within the rules isn't it? i used to think of it as cheap but now i think everything within the rules is okay. however, it would be cheap to apply it explosively in training. the "yanked very hard on his foot right" would get your face punched in in quite a few places.


On Tony C's catch wrestling tapes he shows several moves like that including that specific one. Never tried it but it looks like it hurts.

i don't think it's worse than a toe hold or heelhook if they are allowed by the rules, only if applied explosively in training. if you can tap somebody out like that in abu dhabi, then go for it.

Cheap? Maybe, but definately a valid technique and part of the game. Of course so are alot of other "ripping" techniques which are effective but guarenteed to make you the least popular training partner at the academy :)

I'm all for trying out something new, however I definately wouldn't like the idea of my training partner trying out new submissions on me in a forceful manner. For one, yanking "really hard" without knowing the mechanics of the particular move which you just invented could lead to serious injury.

So-called "cheap" moves are nessecary in small doses to keep training realistic, however opportunistic techniques should not be a substitute for good fundamentals.

And finally, mutual respect between training partners and having a sense of safety on the mat always comes first, IMHO.

Andre: Well Joe was good enough at teaching 'cheap moves' like that to teach one of his students good enough to tap out Ricco.

LOL...Kai, I dont get your point. Ahmad didnt catch Ricco in a shinlock, it was a heel hook. I never said that a heel hook was a cheap move.

I love Ahmad. I think he is an excellent grappler. He has fantastic leg locks and a tough all around game. He is a great friend of mine.

But people go on about that match over and over on these forums. Ricco has accomplished so much in MMA by fighting and winning at the highest levels of the sport. Ahmad's win over him is used by every joker in the world who wants to validate "catch style" over jiujitsu just because Ahmad caught Ricco when he was slipping.

Let me ask you this...Do you think Ahmad or Joe Charles could beat the guys Ricco has beaten? Do you think Ricco would ever play such a silly type of open guard like he did that day?

Like I said, Ahmad deserves all the credit in the world for being a great guy and a great grappler, but that match doesn't prove anything about which techniques are valid and which style is more effective.

By the way, let me clear that I'm not saying he was lucky by catching Ricco. I dont believe in lucky submissions. Ricco played an open guard against a guy who has great leg locks. That was a mistake, but that is part of the game and Ahmad was smart to take advantage of that.

I am simply talking about the "he beat jiujitsu" hype that came from that win.

someone showed me this about 6 months ago....FUCKING hurts

spooky, was it Patrick?