So finally I get what is going wrong. Nog does a sub which I've being doing as a white belt at Renzo's academy, you know it is a standard move that everybody knows, great move, but no big mystery, and Bas says he's never seen it( no suprise as he still believes you cannot gilotine with one with one of their arms caught inside the choke) but also Chuck Liddel has never seen it. It baffles me these guys are pros, but it means this, hardly anyone out there is learning proper BJJ, it has been so diluted that all these guys say oh I train/ teach BJJ but they don't even know half of the basic moves.
I know there was a problem with Rickson, and Royce and other Gracie's holding back moves, you know keeping the family secrets, but this a problem,it happened in Japan with Judo and now it is happening in BJJ. The art becomes so diluted it dies. Fortunalely guys like Renzo teach all the moves because he knows if he does not the art will die. This way his own students practice the full repetoir and improve on the moves. John Dunahar, one of his intructors is a classic example, always coming up with variation. And as we saw BTT have enough guys who know their shit.
Even half the people on this forum said they had never seen it. The moral of this story, go to Renzo on the west coast and Ralph on the East, and learn the real art.
Judo died?
A horrible and tragic death
How many MMA fights has Renzo or anyone else won with that particular maneuver. Not dissing anyone especially Renzo, but Nog takes a move that a lot of people know but can't pull off in top level fight competition and he makes it look like poetry, even when he's getting hammered.
His game is inspiring.
I loved the thread..and agree 100%...but Renzo is on the EAST COAST
By the way..when I travelled out to Cali last year..Dave Terrel showed this move...one of his favorites
BTT are the best BJJ guys in MMA today. Love Nog's half guard sweeps as well...his transitions are slick..and his stand up is good enough to make people respect him on his feet.
Yeah I'm not dissin' Nog it was an amazing move. But how can Liddel not know it?
"But how can Liddel not know it? "
because he is a purple belt and he style is sprawl and brawl not submissions.
I was thinking the same thing watching Frank Mir doing the head/arm choke from the mount on Wes Sims . I was sitting there saying , get off mount and go to side control ...he didnt , ended up letting go of the choke . Joe Rogan picked up the problem as I did ...amazed that Frank Mir didnt know that ..or at least didn't do it .
"But how can Liddel not know it? "
because he is a purple belt and he style is sprawl and brawl not submissions"
He's a purple belt, I rest my fuckin' case!! Who the hell is teaching him, more importantly giving him his belt. A purple belt who deosn't know that is an embarrisment.
You might be right ...but he had the submission sunk , why didnt he do the next move to get the tap ?
Instead he sat there and used up all his energy and had to let go .
Please stop being a know-it-all white belt. You're irritating me.
With the Mir move, losing the mount to finish a move takes amazing belief in yourself under that kind of pressure. That's what makes Nog so good, he totally believes in his BJJ at all times.
"But how can Liddel not know it?"
That choke is far easier to pull off w/ a gi as you can grip the gi on your opponents triceps. Without a gi, it is too easy to lose the grip. Most guys would just go for a guillotine in MMA. Even though Chuck may be purple belt level, I doubt highly he trains w/ a gi.
Kurt Angle used to put people to sleep with the front headlock.
When done properly the front headlock can be a more effective submission than the guillotine.
"That choke is far easier to pull off w/ a gi as you can grip the gi on your opponents triceps. Without a gi, it is too easy to lose the grip. Most guys would just go for a guillotine in MMA. Even though Chuck may be purple belt level, I doubt highly he trains w/ a gi."
What you talking about the move he did is a no gi move. Tried and trusted. Once you pull his arm under you grab your own bicep, as you would a rear naked.
And Tomato Can, who you calling a white belt?
The Mir choke is inredibly hard to pull off staying on the mount . So why even bother going for it if your not prepared to lose the mount to finish it ?
I had never seen the move before. Looking forward to trying it out though. Worked on it right after the event.
What was the point of this?
I dont feel as special now.I remember learning that move my first year from Sifu Hartsell.I'm suprised with Bas I thought He practically knew everything.I bet good old Jim Brown would if he saw that in UFC 8.
"just because your particular coach taught you one particular move does not mean that submission is common knowledge to all people who train..im sure there are thousands of moves that even the top guys dont know"
But this one is a bloody effective move from a very common position, any coach worth his salt should teach it.