I seen almost all (except) the last of royces fights, people speak of his submissions like his is really one of the best. I have not seen him submit a great subfighter have any of u. Only good subfighter I've seen him fight was Wallad who choked him out in under 5 minutes and it was a no time limit match. Today Royce is a good fighter. 10 years ago he was a great fighter. Although he has more skill today then he did 10 years ago.
I think people like Royce and brag on him when he wins and abandon him when he loses.
very true similar to lots of sports and outcomes
I've never abandoned Royce
Oh yes.... that would be the fair weather fan, right MitsuyoMaeda?
Ken was a good subfighter, or at least was billed as a "submission expert" when they first fought.
Mitsuyo is not a fairweather fan if that's what you're getting at momita
no no, I was agreeing with what he said.......... when someone wins, bandwagons pop up all over, when they lose.... well, some jump ship. :)
*wonders if Spankenstyne has a cousin that rhythms with his name*
*gets big stick ready in case*
It was interesting to see Royce against another top grappler in Yoshida, Royce moved really well
Definitly momita, mma is full of fair weather fans..and I mean FULL...
Royce lost to wallid and sak and alot of his own bjj community abandoned him, starting saying his level was blue belt, saying he never proved himself, that he shouldnt rep BJJ, never won any BJJ comps, etc, etc. All because they felt that his loss made them look bad somehow....
But then he wins or does well and everyone loves him again and he is a perfect example of their art....It works this way alot. Ask Royce..
right on MM.
when someone's "on," they're "on." royce was "on" for this fight and proved that his skills are the real deal.
I SECOND THAT GUARD STRIKE DEFENCE! And in those days, headbutts where allowed.
Another factor is that now everyone is pretty much familiar with the basic no-gi bjj tactics (standard armbars, triangles, chokes,ankle locks...),whereas when the UFC started, for a great number of people submissions were brand new,they didn't know what to look for and were easily caught with submission techniques. Plus Royce wearing his gi added many weapons to his arsenal,if his opponent did as well,that was even more to Royce's advantage. I still think he's a great fighter and deserves his status.
Royce has never been a "submission machine" like Mino for instance...but he did submit a fair number of his opponents and his guard has been really solid when it comes to not taking much punishment. Against Saku, he really didn't take any serious shots on the ground until really late in the fight and both guys were really tired. Even then, like 95% of the damage he took was standing up. On the ground, Royce is one of the best there is at not taking a beating from his back.
I always recall Oleg bragging about how he and Royce were the only two that could fight from their back. In reality, Oleg was simply able to take a lot of punishment and stay conscious.
I would just like to see him against a couple of top ten fighters. Hopefully in the 185 weight class. I wont come back here in 5 years and ask him to repeat either. Everytime new group of fighters come up everybody wants the old guard to try them. I dont think thats really relavent. Only wanting to see him fight now because now people know how to fight in a more rounded way. He proved that by itself his form of grappling (fighting) was the best now everyone has learned it.
"Quincy, I am really getting tired of schooling you on this forum. It's just too easy, and it's happening way too often.
First off, you're spreading an old, tired myth on here once again. Nobody abandoned Royce. "
Yourfather beleives that Royce did not lose a shitload of fans after Sak in 2000.
Umm... He did. People watched him lose in a match where he demanded special rules tailor made for his fighting style. Maybe I am nuts, and know nothing. Maybe you are right, and that the loss to Sak as well as the loss to Wallid had no effect on his fan base. Maybe Royce is immune to fair weather fans, unlike Cro-cop, Mino, Shammy, Sak, and Tito, who all lost a chunk of their bandwagon when they lost. But that never happened to Royce... no way! NO ONE DOUBTED HIM! HE WAS SEEN AS THE SAME DOMINATING CHAMP AS EVER!
Maybe Royce does, in fact, walk on water... can turn lead into gold.. blah blah blah..
He is a pioneer in the sport, a great guy, and an outstanding fight. But when he loses, people jump ship, it happens to everyone. Even Royce.
I love it when lower belts come on and attest to the asotnishing ability of experienced grapplers.
- but i'd argue that you have a self-confidence problem.
Prostitute of the year. Shelby Walker!!