Interesting snippet I came across today. Odie Neto, 2003 NAGA champ thows his vote into the bucket against no-gi training
Awesome! Im going to post this on the UG. I hate to say "I told ya so", but what the hell!
shen, how many gold medals at major comps do you hold?
Odies shadow would tap your ass out, I think he knows a bit more than you and your lame attempt at humour.
Watch you mouth call shen lame!
What I don't understand is how one can argue that the gi makes your escapes better without also say that nogi makes your top control and submission game better because you rely on proper pressure and not friction or gi handles.
If you say one is better for escapes because you reply on proper positioning and not slipperyness then that logic dictates that nogi would be better for your top game.
Simple, GI training slows things down so you can learn the technique properly, better, tighter.
Imagine trying to learn to paint, while always having a 10 minute time limit for each painting. Getting the technique down will take longer, and you may never get it.
Meanwhile, the guy who spends 1 week on each painting is perfecting his technique, so he can do it well as he speeds up instead of sloppy.
Lots of sports teach things slow at first, so you get it, then later, you can speed it up.
But you can use a lot of "gi tricks" to control your opponent rather than solid fundamental to control your opponent. That can hinder the learning process.
The fact that your partner can slip out of a hold at any moment, teaches you to stay tight and keep them pinned.
How does gi training slow things down?
"They don't know what technical means until they try defending 4 lapels and a noose at the same time."
"How does gi training slow things down?"
Grabbing of the sleeves and lapel for use of stalling. It's alot hard to exlode and move when you need to break grips first.
Now you know what I can and cant defend? Thats funny, you must have real spooky mind reading powers. Youre delusional.
The point stands, a no-gi champ like Odie probably knows a bit more than you. Notice that you never challenged this, smart kid.
Have you ever led a BJJ school in gi and no-gi for 2 years side by side and paid attention to what actually helped your students? How many golds in no-gi comps do you hold?
Sorry if I take an experts, expert opinion, over yours. Marcelo Garcia has voted the same way. I guess you think he is wrong too. Why dont you post your credentials so we can compare you to Odie and Marcelo? LMAO.
sdbjj - you're an idiot.
Shen...you made me spit coffee on my scren this am.
LMAO! Shen & SidRon are freaking hilarious! Thank god I wasn't eating or drinking at the time :).
Seems like the gi/nogi debate will never end. For years I was more in favour of nogi, but I'm training with the gi a lot these days so I can improve both aspects. Actually, I tap a lot of people using my own gi, so it tends to frustrate the nogi guys when I grapple with them :).
With regards to the debate, I find merit in both gi and nogi. For a long time I was "against" the gi side because I didn't want to learn habits that wouldn't be applicable to nogi, since that was my focus. I still agree with that mindset to a certain degree, but it's not that simple.
Probably the biggest advantage that I've found with gi is that it does indeed slow things down. There's a lot of friction, so you can't just slip out of things using sweat and explosiveness. It takes more technique and finesse. Once your technique has improved sufficiently, you'll notice the difference in nogi.
In terms of nogi cross-training, I would recommend gi guys not to get too dependent on grabbing the gi. Grabbing the gi is great for stalling, holding someone down and certain submissions, but it doesn't work for nogi. Nogi will teach you ways to do all of those things in ways that don't depend on the gi. This is where the principles learned through gi will pay dividends in nogi. You'll be forced to lay down a lot of pressure on your sweaty opponent who's squirming and exploding to escape. In this way, you'll take what you learned from gi to the next level in nogi.
Nogi guys tend to rely more on athleticism than gi guys, which leads to debates about gi being more technical. It's certainly true that good athleticism will take you further in nogi than gi. But to disregard the technique involved in nogi is an oversight, imo. It's like when people say that wrestling is all strength. Nothing could be further from the truth! At advanced levels, nogi becomes very technical and this is where good fundamentals learned through gi training will really shine.
Regardless of your preference, both gi and nogi have a lot to offer and make an awesome combination, imo. I think the debate about which is "better" is a flawed way of looking at it and leads to conflict when people disagree. I think it would be better to discuss their merits and how they can help improve your game, whether gi or nogi.
What do you guys think?
dafelst - why dont you ask the mighty shen how to defend against a simple arm triangle with a simple setup like that, the unstoppable hat choke spits up LOL.
He seems to know everything, even more than Marcelo Garcia and Naga champ Neto when it comes to these things. LOL. Hat Choke, ha. You better ask Shen how to defend the anus choke, I hear he is black belt level at that one.
The irony here is there is a real choke called the hat choke and it has nothing to do with hats you wear. Its an arm triangle choke + setup.
lmao @ an outbreak of cradle cap!
Read my previous post... its an ARM triangle choke.
I thought you were refering to the real "hat choke", not a hat your wear.
You dont have to describe what a triangle choke is to me, im a purple belt.
What is true is that with Gi, you learn the tecnique from the beginning to the end due to the grips and the lack of the sweat. With Gi on you learn where you have to grip for a submission, for a side control, for a guard pass and so on.
Once you get rid of the Gi, obviously, you dont have lapel grips, but you have body grips. Now you know where you have to continue gripping, doing presure with your weight and continuing a tight game. And you know that you have to do the same techniques you learned with the Gi. This techniques you learned from the beggining to the end. I think its the main clue.
Obviously, If you want to compete in a NoGi tournament or for Mma, you will have to train specificaly NoGi. I think everybody agree with it.