Ninja is correct about that, we'll see after they promote here in America.
I still think they don't have a chance to even come close to selling more than 15,000 PPVs no matter how they promote because:
1. the name "Pride", people in America think "gay" automatically and may not consider ordering it because of this.
2. Lack of credibility. Main recent reason: Allowing Dos Caras to fight with his mask on. Even if Vanderlei or Fedor fought with a mask on, most American fight fans would assume WWF, and therefore fake fighting.
3. Lack of consistency and integrity. I won't even get into all the problems pride has had with poor referees, inconsistent rule enforcement, inconsistent judging, etc.
4. Sunday ppvs. There is a really good reason that UFC, WWE, and Boxing show thier PPVs on Friday or Saturday. These events are social things and people are much less likely to socialize, have bbq's, etc. on Sunday. People are also less likely to purchase a ppv event for individual viewing. Even if Pride's Vegas show isn't on Sunday, that's only for one show and it will be back to Japan.
5. Absolutely ZERO name recognition. Everyone has at least heard of UFC. Because of that they are more likely to buy a ppv after seeing it advertised. Noone has heard of Pride which makes it much more difficult for Dream State to get people to buy a ppv for thirty bucks when they don't know what to expect.
I'm all for both UFC and Pride to start getting a million buys each, but it ain't gonna happen soon.
Paulio- I dont agree with your assessment.
The UFC is not raking in the PPV buys. Anyone willing to shell out $30 for the UFC, is not getting it on name recognition alone. I would guess these same people would also pay for Pride, especially if Pride has just a few recognizable people, or used some basic marketing.
On the whole, I would think that Prides ref are just as credible as the UFC's. There are equal amounts of bad decisions, bad standups, etc.
Restarts in the center of the ring are WAAAAAAY better than huggy buggy lay and pray against the fence.
The restarts are a big part of the problem . Anyway Pride nutthuggers like Nina 420 won`t admit but it sucks watching them stop the action and restart the fighters in the middle of the ring because they are about to fall out of the ring onto the floor. It breaks up the action and when you have guys like Yoshida who try to milk every second they can to get a breath and retie their pajamas it even sucks more. It will never be like boxing till you can keep the fighters in the ring and off the floor without help.
The ring is fine for boxing but guess what ?
This isn`t boxing.
"They will have to put on fights like Sapp/Vader, at least initially."
Oh well, HAPPY days.
Whatever. I hope they make it big for the sake of MMA in general, but I got the feeling the way it will be marketed will be very much in a WWE vein. I don't think they can waltz in and sell the same product UFC has been trying to sell for 10 years, so they'll have to do something different.
What this 'difference' will be is anyone's call, but I'll be most disappointed if they stray too far from competitive MMA and further into staged fighting...
The japanese are considered the "knowledgable" fight fans, but they love pro wrestling, just like Americans.
Gimmicky presentation works. Look at all the reality TV. It's boring stuff but it's packaged and hyped and it sells
"Also, Pride is too WWF'ish for American fight fans."
What u guys fail to realize is that Pride may in short term, not be very successful here. I think that they will end up has a presence in the us market. Why? well first everyone knows that ufc and pride would be nothing without thier backbone fanbase, that is the same group of people. I think those people would make an extra effort to support the venue (by showing up). Then after the make a mainstream name over here, their videos and games will start to sell here. then it will be the new thing that people will want to see. If they can market over here or not is almost irrelavant because the hardcore fanbase drives the market anyway.
hell yeah
No, UFC starts from standing position after all timeouts, per NV Athletic Commission regulations
"but it's a virtual certainty that their first few shows over here are going to embarass the UFC."
LOL@'virtual certainty'.
Since when does the UFC have all this brand recognition? The vast majority of Americans still don't know anything about either event.
If Pride goes to NV, first off they'll have to go no shoes (I'm sure that applies to masks as well), standing restarts, weight classes, etc. (per NJ and NV athletic commishion rules).
Hardcore fans are already in (unless you're the kinda "fan" who loves the UFC more than the actual sport). Add to that, better fighters, rules that stress action rather than just holding an opponent against a fence or on the ground. The ring is better (IMO) for viewing and legitimacy. Better paydays, better production quality.
I don't see any reason why Pride can't dominate the market share of fight fans. They have a better product and, like it or not, Americans love sensationalism (like pro-wrestling). Sensationalism is what made the UFC popular in the first place.
Cbreeze, you say that America does not represent an attractive un-tapped market to Pride...you are very, very incorrect.
There is a BIG difference between the economies of America and Japan. Boxing does not have the popularity in America that Pride or K-1 have in Japan....yet guys like Oscar De La Hoya can make $20 million for a fight. You don't see that kind of money in Pride or K-1.
If the UFC gets a TV deal and the show becomes popular...there is a very good chance of that in my opinion....the UFC's PPV buys and attendance will dramatically improve. Which will = lots of more money for the UFC...which will = Pride not being able to financially compete with the UFC unless they fight for their share of the American market right now.
There are other reasons for Pride to want to enter the American market other then out of fear of UFC taking their fighters. As I already mentioned, there is a lot of money that could be made in America...where the fanbase for MMA is growing larger and larger thanks to all the progress the UFC has made expanding their audience and getting the sport sanctioned in more and more states.
Pride has got to see the UFC as a threat to it's business...and America as an opportunity to make a lot more money. So there is no way Pride's thought process is..."We could dominate the American market anytime we want....we just don't feel like doing it now"....it's thought process is most likely something like, "we need to enter the American market...but we haven't been able to do it very well yet...we have to wait until the UFC makes more progress with the sport in America"
I do buy almost every Pride event...but I do not see them as the superior product at all. I see UFC as the superior product. I like to see evenly matched fights...I don't like to already know who is going to win before the fight happens cause it's a total mis-match and I don't like freak show fights. I prefer seeing the cage used over the ring. I think the quality of fighters in both organizations is very even. I like how the UFC has lighter weight classes...not just HW and LHW like Pride. I also like how the UFC actually adheres to it's weight-class rules. I think most other Americans would agree with at least some of these points.
Does the hardcore fanbase really support Pride? Kirik has said this site gets between 15K and 20K uniques. There is a lot of overlap between mma.tv and other sites such as sherdog, fightsport, etc. But I'd guess about 25,000 total hardcore fans. Pride's Grand Prix Finals...which was maybe the most stacked MMA card ever and also had a UFC fighter on it...only got 7,000 buys. And don't say everyone already knew the resutls...it was same day delayed. I would think most people if they really cared about seeing the event could stay off the internet for a few hours.
If Pride tries to show freak-show fights like Sapp-Tamura or Herring-Giant Silva to mainstream America...most Americans will be turned off by it. They won't see Pride as a real sport...just a freak show. There are a lot more fans of legitimate sports such as football, baseball, and boxing then there are pro-wrestling fans. That's why I say Pride doesn't know how to market itself to the American fanbase.
NameCaller, the UFC does have brand recognition. I'd guess that 80% of America has at least heard of the UFC and have some idea what it is. About .1% of America has even heard of Pride. Sensationalism is not good. Sensationalism is what caused MMA to nearly get stomped out of existence in America.
Solitary Zen, i agree 100%!
I think if PRIDE would ally itself with SHOOTO and become more legitimate as a true 'SPORT' instead of a pro-wrestling type freakshow THEN the UFC would have a true competitor to worry about.
Letting SHOOTO sanction their events and using it's weight classes could help PRIDE to grow in every aspect of their goals
They have a lot of excitment that appeals to the crwods of all combat sport audiences...they also can attract the top fighters...all they need is to appear more legitmate and get rid of that stigmatism that's stuck with from having mismatches and worked fights
sticking with a set of established weight classes and rules from a very well organized and respected group like SHOOTO is all they would need...they can easily surpass the UFC but without this legitmacy it'll never happen...IMO
Align with shooto. I love shooto but some of you do not understand the business in japan.
Prides prowrestlinf fans bring pride millions, shooto barely gets a few thousand a show.
"THEN the UFC would have a true competitor to worry about."
I dont understand this considering pride does way better business then the ufc.
And jotun as for saying pride has to worry about k-1, everyone seems to thinkn that, but k-1 has not stolen any real pride fighters, however pride has taken leko and crocop, k-1 has to worry to.
And also some people are kidding themselves if they think ufc does not have to worry about k-1.
Franklin, DIn, now rizzo? Thats more then k-1 has taken from pride.
K-1 is a threat to everyone. But the only one that can touch k-1's money is pride.
Prie will be dead in 18 months, K-1, will be the worl leader in MMA, it already has the franchises everywhere and just needs to start putting the effort into the shows.
The UFC should follw K-1s modl and start having shows almost every week somwhere in the world, using mainly local fighters an a few marquee names flown in specially, then with one PPV every month in one of the prime combat sport locations(Vegas, Japan, Holland, Brazil, Russia, England etc) they could be raking in some serious money from local TV deals, sell through compilations of the best matches, PPV buys and all the ancillaries.
This is the way business should be done, and no more allowing fighters to sit on belts either.
theres room (in the US) for both promotions to grow the sport. only working together will make this happen./
Johnny payne did you not read my post?
If your going to disagree with me back up your points.
If pride is dead ufc will be dead, as we seen with rich, rizzo, din, ufc is an easy target for k-1.
Pride can at least match there money.
Wouldn't be surprise if they take over the got the $$$$$$$$
I think its a good idea your know they ain't going to be payin$3000 for fighters they will offer more and that will pullthe fighters somewehere else when they get dicked around
"Prides prowrestlinf fans bring pride millions, shooto barely gets a few thousand a show."
Everyone knows this...i did not say for SHOOTO to take over the promoting of PRIDE, that would be suicide. I'm just saying that, for PRIDE to be a major competitor with the UFC(in America), they need more legtimacy and SHOOTO sanctioning can provide that.
I'm also well aware that most of their fan base in Japan is from the pro-wrestling audience. But that "aura" around them would not go over too well to promote MMA in America. Esp the worked fights and mismatches.
SHOOTO isnt perfect and they are sometimes too close-minded but, they have organized this sport like few others.
I also dont like all of SHOOTO's rules and, their weight classes are not exactly the same as the UFC but...
...they are well respected and organized.
When Sayama formed SHOOTO he did it because he was tired of 'worked' fights and wanted to make a legit 'SHOOT' organization. SHOOTO has done way more than Zuffa(IMO), to help promote MMA around the world...AND, to legitmize the sport.
And, even though they dont make a lot of money they have produced some very popular champions!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Peace!
braddah shano
"THEN the UFC would have a true competitor to worry about."
"I dont understand this considering pride does way better business then the ufc."
I think we were talking about PRIDE in America...not Japan.