European Murder Rates Compared to the United States: Demographics vs Guns
When the subject is gun control, those who demand more for the United States always point to Europe. Europe, they say, has more gun control than the United States, and lower murder rates. Europe, of course, is a diverse place. Some places have lots of guns and low murder rates. Some places have few guns and higher murder rates. The reason that many developed European countries have murder rates much lower than the United States is not guns or gun control. It is demographics.
In 2006 the Department of Justice issued a report on violent felons in large urban counties. It covered the period from 1990 to 2002, and included the 75 most populous counties in the United States. The study accounted for over half of all the murders in the United States in the covered period.
Revealed in the study was a simple breakdown of the demographics of the murderers that is not commonly available. Murderers were divided into three groups. Blacks were the most numerous at 46%. Hispanics were next at 27 percent. Non-Hispanic whites were last at 23 percent.
While the study does not account for all murders in the period studied, it accounts for more than half and almost certainly slightly understates the percentages of Black murderers, because the latest FBI statistics (for 2010) show that when all the murders in the U.S are taken into account, the percentage of Black murderers is over 53 percent.
No one would dispute that there are several distinct cultures among the American black population. No one would dispute that none of these cultures exist in Europe in any statistically significant numbers. Some of the Black American subcultures probably have very low murder rates. We cannot tell because we do not have the data to distinguish between them.
Similarly, there are a number of distinct Hispanic cultures in the United States. These are all derived from cultures in Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean. They are not Spanish or Portuguese. No one would argue that any statistical number of these populations exist in Europe. No doubt, some of these cultures also have very low murder rates, but without data, we cannot separate them out.
Where does that lead us? If we take the 23 percent figure for non-Hispanic whites to be representative for the entire population (remember, it is likely a good bit lower), then the number of murders committed by non-Hispanic and non-black people in the United States for 2010 would be 2989.
The population of non-Hispanic whites for 2010 was 196.8 million. Applying the 2989 murders to this population gives a murder rate of 1.52 per 100,000 population. We cannot get a more precise figure unless we have more demographic data than that given. Asian-Americans, for example, have historically had very low murder rates, but we do not have the data. The 1.52 per 100,000 murder rate is right in the middle of the murder rate of developed European countries. Add the Black and Hispanic numbers back into the mix and apply to the entire United States population, and the murder rate goes up to 4.8 per 100,000. Guns or gun control simply do not correlate to higher murder rates, particularly when you consider that non-Hispanic Whites own guns at much higher rates than do Blacks or Hispanics in the United States.
There are huge numbers of German-Americans, English-Americans, Greek-Americans, Italian-Americans, Scandinavian and Swiss-Americans in the United States. There are no statistically significant numbers of African-American or Hispanic-Americans in Europe.
As a check, you might consider a non-European example. Japan has extreme gun control and extremely low murder rates. The FBI used to track murders by Japanese-Americans before 1980, when access to firearms was relatively easy. The murder rate of Japanese Americans was less than half that of Japanese in Japan.
Murder rates are driven by cultural background, not by the instrument used.
European murder and gun ownership rates: Link
Department of Justice Study with demographic data: Link
FBI homicide statistics, 2010: Link
Japanese and Japanese American murder rates: Link
Household Gun Ownership Rates: Link
Link to Teen Homicides by Ethnicity, 2010
"In 2010, the homicide rate for black male teens was 51.7 per 100,000, more than 22 times higher than the rate for white male teens (2.4 per 100,000). Rates for other groups were 17.9 per 100,000 for Hispanic males, 11.9 per 100,000 for American Indian males, and 3.2* per 100,000 for Asian and Pacific Islander males. (Figure 3)"
Update: Here is a chart showing murder rates during the Middle Ages in Europe. Murder rates then were close to what is seen in African American cultures in the United States today, indicating that it is a cultural, not a racial relationship.
Link: Homicide Rates Before Guns?
Update: Murder victims in DC support the hypothesis, given that the vast majority of murder is intraracial:
In fact, white residents face a lower homicide victim rate in the District than the nation as a whole. Nationally, 2.7 white residents are homicide victims per 100,000 white residents. But, among DC white residents, this figure is lower both when looking at data from either of the most recent two years (zero and 1.3 in 2009 and 2010, respectively) or the latest 5-year average (1.5).
Here is a Yale study showing that cultural links are the biggest factor in predicting homicides:
Yale Study Shows Culture the biggest factor in Homicide (2013)
Overall, the community's five-year homicide rate was 39.7 per 100,000 people, which was still much higher than the averages of other areas of Chicago (14.7 per 100,000). But being a part of that network of co-offenders, essentially just being arrested, raised the rate to by nearly 50 percent, to 55.2 per 100,000. What's more, being in a network with a homicide victim increased the homicide rate by 900 percent, to 554.1 per 100,000.
Here is some more data from the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (CDC). This data covers the period 1999 to 2007:
Tables for Homicide rates 1999 to 2007 by ethnicity:
Link to article with above graph
Update: Article that shows that mass murderers are not committed disproportionately by white men:
Link to article: Are Most Mass Murderers Really White?
Update: Family Structure and crime
Although there is a large disparity between the crime rates of whites and those of African-Americans,14 any perception that this is based solely on racism quickly evaporates when family structure is considered in the data. When researchers control for marriage, the rates of crime for whites and blacks in each family group are very similar.
Update: Another author comes to the same conclusion, but when you factor in illegal aliens, the murder rate drops even further.
Murder Most Swedish at the American Thinker
©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included
People think we have a gun problem, we really have an inner city gang problem.
Rhode Island has lax gun laws and a very low murder rate.
District of Columbia has very high murder rate and extremely strict gun laws.
Subbed for later
Here's the takeway: "Guns or gun control simply do not correlate to higher murder rates".
You could drop 100mil guns in Japan tomorrow and they wouldn't have our murder rates. If you dropped our murder prone populations there on the other hand...
"You could drop 100mil guns in Japan tomorrow and they wouldn't have our murder rates."
But the murder rate would almost certainly rise.
Tomato Can - "You could drop 100mil guns in Japan tomorrow and they wouldn't have our murder rates."
But the murder rate would almost certainly rise.
Considering their culture quite likely not... Or at least not enough to notice.
It would be noticeable.
Japan is run by the Yakuza and they don't have black ghettos
I don't agree. The correlation is not there. But we've had this debate before.
It's not about correlation. A gun is a tool. If you make a more effective tool more available, the murder rate goes up.
Japan isn't gonna suddenly turn into Honduras, but the murder rate would rise. And of course that's to say nothing of suicides and accidental deaths.
In
data makes it pretty obvious
facts don't care about your feelings
Tomato Can - It's not about correlation. A gun is a tool. If you make a more effective tool more available, the murder rate goes up.It's in the article.
Japan isn't gonna suddenly turn into Honduras, but the murder rate would rise. And of course that's to say nothing of suicides and accidental deaths.
As a check, you might consider a non-European example. Japan has extreme gun control and extremely low murder rates. The FBI used to track murders by Japanese-Americans before 1980, when access to firearms was relatively easy. The murder rate of Japanese Americans was less than half that of Japanese in Japan.
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You can't just say you make a tool.available and the murder rate rises. That's a conclusion. You have to support it. You haven't. Japanese here kill less even with more guns available.
Ignoring that, maybe they'd kill just the same but with other tools. Tools don't make propel criminals. Maybe lethality would be slightly higher but with their murder rate it would be negligible and not noticeable imo.
If you make a more effective tool more available, the murder rate goes up
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The entire point is you cannot prove this. You can't just make statements like that.
The article above has data showing that it is not the case.
In the US the tools available have only become even more available while our murder rate has trended down.
The left want facts to be racist but even in the countries of Europe where there has been a huge amount of African refugees the crime rate skyrocketed. Sweden which was once known as one of the most peaceful areas in the world is now the rape capital of the western world.
West virginia has the poorest areas in America but it is not close to being the most violent. Those areas are also white. Even in the poorest areas of America which are white are nothing close to the crime of the black areas.
Until we as a nation can actually talk about the problem it will only get worse. Seriously has tip toeing around the issue made things better? Seriously think about it.
Brockback Mountain - People think we have a gun problem, we really have an inner city gang problem.
Rhode Island has lax gun laws and a very low murder rate.
District of Columbia has very high murder rate and extremely strict gun laws.
Nailed it! But when you mention this people who are anti gun lose their mind. I say if you eliminate the gang violence the gun homicide rate in the US is miniscule and not the problem. The biggest risk of dun death is middle aged men via suicide. But suicide is not a uniquely American issue nor is it a gun issue. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the developed world and they have very strict gun laws and very few guns.
amadeus -Tomato Can - "You could drop 100mil guns in Japan tomorrow and they wouldn't have our murder rates."
But the murder rate would almost certainly rise.Considering their culture quite likely not... Or at least not enough to notice.
Of course it would rise dumbass.
Fake Pie - If you make a more effective tool more available, the murder rate goes up
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The entire point is you cannot prove this. You can't just make statements like that.
The article above has data showing that it is not the case.
In the US the tools available have only become even more available while our murder rate has trended down.
They can and do make those statements constantly in the gun debate. That's the problem they aren't willing to deal with logic, reason, facts, or data. They want to use an emotional response that ignores actual data to back their claims. I posted about gun issues on FB and being from CA originally and in the military for 20 years I have friends on pretty far to the extreme on both sides. It started a bunch people trying to argue the anti gun point with corelation not causation and no data. While all the gun owners where pointing to actual stats and data saying it's not the gun its the person behind it.
Rounder8 -amadeus -Tomato Can - "You could drop 100mil guns in Japan tomorrow and they wouldn't have our murder rates."
But the murder rate would almost certainly rise.Considering their culture quite likely not... Or at least not enough to notice.
Of course it would rise dumbass.
Based on what data? Will it suddenly cause a violent inner city gang problem like the major gun violence issue here?