Old school training leading to injuries?

I have been thinking about this for years. It seems kinda obvious that certain fighters are/were riddled with joint injuries and that there is a connection to where they came from. In the 90's we had Pancrase gym, the Lion's Den, Takada Dojo and so on. Look at those who fought in Pancrase: Bas Rutten, knees shattered ( http://murasakibjj.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/bada-dinka-dinka-dink/ ), Back problems, small-joint problems in hands. Ken Shamrock, knees completely busted, although he still fights there has been many years since he last shot for a good takedown. Funaki, complained about knee problems in the past, did not do well after his long layoff after losing to Rickson in 2000 (where he actually injured his knee). Guy Mezger, retired after having a stroke. Frank Shamrock, knees done, nothing to do with his back problems.

Sakuraba, knees are gone long ago, he probably don't even have ACLs or PCLs anymore. Has had a stroke, still fighting.

Igor Vovchanchyn: Did always show up to fight actually but ended up with a busted up body and screws in his arm.


On to "today's" fighters: Shogun is not that old, yet riddled with knee problems. Big Nog is an injury factory, he just fought everybody anyway even though he was injured, he would fight everybody with torn ACLs, bulging discs, torn ligaments and so on, it is only now he is no longer able to compete injured. His whole body is a mess and has demanded surgery. Wanderlei has had knee surgery. Murilo Rua has had knee surgery. Vitor Belfort recently pulled out of the fight with Cung Le due to knee problems.



How can this not be due to the way these fighters have trained? The Pancrase fighters trained in an old-school pro-wrestling-inspired way with fighters basically sweating their guts out in a session similar to some "learn how to be a man"-course where you had to show that you were hard instead of soft.

Hugo Duarte said proudly in an interview that all his injuries has come during training because he always trained harder than he fought. Does this seem wise to anyone.....?

I think the old-school submission wrestling fighters trained too hard, tried to be too manly, tried to wriggle out of submissions for too long, pushed themselves too hard. They simply trained like they fought which sounds cool but when you are constantly injured it is not that cool... Instead of trying to be a consistently good fighter they would try to be a badass in camp, always trying to struggle out of a submission even though it hurt a little. 10 years of that and your joints are worn.

I think the brazilians are still left back in the time where you have to "train hard" and suffer. I don't think they have a scientific approach to it all. They probably do the same badass training they always did, wincing while struggling their way out of holds they might as well have tapped to and discussed the result afterwards.



They say a fight is not won in the cage but in the training room. That is partly true, but if your training leaves you unable to win in the cage then what was the point anyway?

Yawn Phone Post

Interesting point you made, but correlation does not always equal causation. Phone Post