Hehe. Fair enough Soj. You people should've read this thread before the tourney thou. Would've been fun to meet you all.
Updog's IP address is in Toronto, maybe you Canadians should go teach him some manners.
Ben Reinhardt
sojurner, if you were refing, where are you from?
we should have a canadian forum meeting sometime
ben, i couldnt agree more.
-resnick
That tourney was filled with bad calls and stupid reffs who have no idea what real judo is. The Canadian players were allowed to flop on their face a thousand times beffore shido was called. Nate Torra was lubbed up and screwed in the ass in his quarter final. The Canadian refused to attack and just played deffensive judo the whole time right in to golden score. Because Nate was attacking the whole time he didnt have much left and got countered midway in to the over time. Nate got to the bronze medal match where he got a shido for having an upright, streight posture, and good judo, it almost cost him the match. Props to Nick Kosser's gold @ 60kg (IJF Junior) beating the drop and flop with good judo.
yuko,
there is no way you can expect to get good calls when you are a foreigner going into a host country and fighitng their guys. i was penalized time and time again at the rendezvous against every canadian i fought. thats just how it goes. 1- they now their players and will always give them the benefit of the doubt. 2- sometimes a players own coaches or teammates or friends will be the refs.
its good that nate came back and did won the bronze. its shitty that he got shafted, but like i said.. foreign players are not going to get the calls against a hometown boy.
-resnick
So does this work both ways? Do U.S. players get favortism at U.S. events? Ben? Dave? Or is it just Canadian referees?
If your player is winning and losing by shidos for shitty little non-combativity penalties and then bitching about referees being biased against him, here's a suggestion. Win by ippon. Leave no room for doubt.
A number of the refs at that tournament were from the U.S. including one member of my team. If you are looking for conspiracy theories I would suggest reading the JFK thread on the underground; it's much more interesting.
The topic is not worth discussing. I'm done.
Well one thing i can say for sure is that tournament was poorly organized. Some people started at 10 am and werent done till 5. 1h between fights is ridiculous to say the least. They should invest in a schedualing algorhythms book and read it over before arranging tourney next time.
SOJ,
im not looking for a conspiracy theory. nobody here is. please dont look at it that way. its just common-knowledge that when you are going into somebody else's house to fight them you cannot expect to get every single call the same way they would.
it isnt even that they are looking and saying "CAN vs USA.. imma screw the USA guy here.." its not necessarily that obvious of a thing... sometimes it is just that the refs and judges know the hometown player and will give him the benefit of the doubt becuase they know how he fights, understand what he is looking for, etc.. etc..
and SOJ, i like the idea of having to win by throwing somebody, but penalties do decide a lot of matches in today's judo world.. and, yes, i think its complete shit. too many fuckin penalties are ruining many auspects of judo IMHO.
but, when it is better to get an opponent a shido that can become yuko than to throw for a koka what do you expect? one BS penalty and one valid penalty is a yuko.. against a guy who is active, though possibly not any real good, that can be a bear of a score to make up on his home-turf.. i think its BS, but thats today's judo.
no conspiracy throey, and yes, id say it does happen in the USA as well. i know it was happening in sweden and finland-- their players almost never got a penalty. i know it happens in LA everytime we go down there to fight. its a completly natural, and normal bias. like i said, not anything malicious or conspiracy-theory worthy.
-resnick
Soj, Hell ya it works both ways! I have seen Canadian judoka take it up the ass big time by U.S. officials and have seen U.S. fellas receive same in Canada.
heard the refing was bad all weekend long in ontario
Guys like Ben and Dave are righteous refs however and are forging a path of righteousness.
I try not to bitch about the refs because I am thankful just to have them out there but there are those that definitely project a bias.
Yuko,
I was a witness of the horrible officiating at the Ontario open. It seemed as if the worst referees in the history of the sport crawled out of the wood work to ref this one tournament. I didn't think that they were biased towards Americans or any specific group, I felt they were consistantly bad with everyone.
JP
Hey Soj you coming to KMC open on Feb14th to ref? If so i'd like to meet you. There is little chance i'll skip a tourney run by my own club.
Some of the reffing was biased, but the -55kg final of the IJF juniors was just horrible. The refs gave 2 shidos to both the guys in the first 30 seconds. Next shido ofcourse won the match.
The only fighters that want to complain about ref's are fighters who don't fight but play the rules. If you are a true fighter you will go out there and fight for ippon. You wont go out there fight to get your opponent out of bounds or wonder why he did'nt get a penalty for his fingers inside your sleeve. I guarentee that any country you fight in, if you go out there to throw the guy and actually play judo the ref's will always know who is there to win with judo and who is there to win with rules.
Suck it up!
Zaz what are you talking about? Not the same thing everyone ellse is thats for shure. Have you ever seen the Cubans or the French players? Have you ever seen someone make their opponent look passive, by holding their head down, to get a shido? But we're not even talking about the players working the system we are talking about a tournament at which the system didnt work because of shit reffing.
"The only fighters that want to complain about ref's are fighters who don't fight but play the rules. "
OR it could also be the fighters who are getting screwed out of a workout and doing some real judo.
Were you even at the Open?
I second what Yuko said. If you fighting a guy who came out to shido you out and not to throw you are not going to have a good time and are very likely to loose if he's good at it. I find it highly dishonorable but reality is people do that all that time. And as Yuko said two fighters may come out to throw and won't even be able to do it cause all of a sudden ref would decide that trying to block WHILE the other guy is throwing you is a straight arm. I loved seeing people get that one. The guy turn in for an uchimata. You push him off forward. You get a penalty. You get pissed off you loose concentration......
Now that i think about it what little judo I actually menaged to watch between catching up on the sleep i lost to get the pointless weight in, there was a good number of very odd calls done and some things were incredebly inconsistant. Like giving 0 ground work time to one athlete in a match and giving the other with a crappier position later in the match 10-15 seconds to do whatever. I won't mention what i think was wrongly called on me cause obviously i'm biased, but ohh well. I liked the usual set of refs we have. Where was the MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATEEEEEEEEEEEEE guy. you can hear his damn mate over a buzzer across the room.
"So does this work both ways? Do U.S. players get favortism at U.S. events? Ben? Dave? Or is it just Canadian referees?"
I don't recall any blatant examples, but I'm sure it has happened on occasion.
More common would be favoritism towards a number one ranked player within the states. I've seen that happen.
Ben Reinhardt
"I try not to bitch about the refs because I am thankful just to have them out there but there are those that definitely project a bias."
Heck, it happened to me at nationals last year, Walt. Watched the video, I attacked repeatedly, breaking a guys balance, he was holding on for dear life. and I got the penalty!
Ben R.