When I am playing spider guard, with one or both feet on the biceps, I find I get into a lot of trouble when the opponent keeps that strong base, and edges forward with his hips forward. I find this stacks my legs back and I am unable to do much. From there, my opponent then gets his hands under my heels and pass the guard.
I have been having a think about this because it is happening more often. I have tried switching to an x-guard, with mixed success, but that isn't really an area I've worked much.
Feet on hips and push back if there is a lot of forward pressure from them. You can change the grip to the shin in the biceps or go back to feet in the biceps.
Just generally i find switching the placement of the feet between biceps, their shoulder and their hips helps. Also changing your angle helps as well.
Spider guard isnt really one of those guard you can keep them in like closed guard, half guard or the shin in the bicep guard.
I guess you're talking gi as spiderguard is not so useful in nogi?
Also I assume he does it in standing position?
When my opponent stands and I do spider I like to use one foot on biceps and other foot on the hip. Keep your hips up so the foot one the hip always has some pressure. I grab one collar-one sleeve.
And also the general rule for open guard - attack, attack, attack.
Thanks so far. I am talking about when the guy stands to pass, and puts a lot of forward pressure on. I do like the open guard, but this has always been stumbling block.
You need to unbalance him. Never keep both legs at the same length. Always try to keep one leg fully extended and the other fully retracted, whipping back and forth spinning on your back to go for legs or a submission attempt.
If you have one leg fully extended and the other fully withdrawn, he will be almost falling over, and will have no ability to put pressure forward with his hips.
In contrast, the "equi-spider" with both legs holding sleeves at the same length is useless and easily passed.
1 foot one the bicep, 1 foot on the hip if he's standing. or both feet on the hips with knees spread wide if he is on his knees. never both feet in the biceps for more than a second.
keep tension on his sleeves with your grips, keeping his hands around mid-thigh to knee level on you. don't let him grab your ankles. if he does, kick leg out to the side while pulling his sleeve to break his grip and return foot to hip or bicep.
keep your elbows close to your sides and low to the mat to keep good tension. don't let your elbows flap around like wings.
keep your head off of the mat so you can spin more easily.
control his distance from you with the foot in the hip. alway switch your feet so the foot in the hip presses against the hip that is closest to you. if he gets too close with his upper body (bent over), go for the submission or the sweep. if he gets too close with his lower body (good posture), switch to a deep DLR guard (very lateral) and sweep as soon as you can. moves away from you - switch to sitting guard, isolating his lead leg and immediately sweep as soon as you sit up or do a single leg.
drill getting the triangle, armbar and omoplata (1 min. each) from one foot in bicep one foot in hip with the opponent standing. focus on jumping your hips up as high as you can and biting down hard with your leg. alternate legs. i do these for warmups sometimes. drill the sweeps from foot in bicep and shin overhook. drill switching out which foot is in the bicep and which is on the hip based on the direction the Uke moves to pass your guard. drill transitions from spider to sitting guard, spider to single leg, spider to DLR and spider to x guard.
I don't disagree with any of that advice about playing open guard, except that I don't really consider it "spider guard." To me, that's just regular, classic open guard. Spider guard is this game:
Great dvd by Tinguinha. You can transition out of spider guard to other grips while fighting, but basic spider guard control is two feet on the biceps. And if done right, it is nauseatingly difficult to pass.
Tinguinha explains the true way to play spider guard. For some reason, spider guard is the worst-taught of all guards. Many people fail to explain that the legs have to constantly be at different extension, or if they do teach the exact opposite extensions relative to your body position.
shoving the hips forward is the best way to shut down the spider guard/open guard, so the only thing to do in order to avoid that is to keep good pressure on them so they keep off balance and are playing a cautious game to avoid a sweep. Another option would be to switch to a leg attack when they move in to stack you up with their hips forward and something that has worked for me to avoid being stacked is to get a hook on one side or both sides. They can still stack you up, but if they do and then try and pass you can counter with a shelf sweep or other variations.
All in all, keep good pressure by pushing in the biceps or hips and pulling on the sleeves, and be constantly threatening with the sweep or submission
Seriously though, the problem does arise when I have both feet on the biceps, or when I open guard from closed guard, and both my feet at equal length from the opponent. I think I need to work on stretching my opponent out immediately with the sleeve and foot on hip.
Yeah, Tinguinha really shows how dead hips are one of the things people do wrong, and make a mockery of the spider guard. They sit flat on their butt, with their legs equidistant. Basically the same way as when you pin the guy's arms against the outside of your legs, which some people call spider guard. You will get ruled if you try to play feet on biceps spider guard that way.
Your hips have to be UP and you have to be spinning them from side to side, one leg fully extended and the other fully retracted. That's the true spider.
Having 2 feet on the bi-ceps IS a waste of time IF your laying on your butt, both legs extended equaly for any length of time.
Look at what the spider guard does to the skeleton and view the bones as levers (thats what they are), also see the body is strong when in proper alignment.
When your position is as described above, your opponent is in a strong position, however IF your hips are not down, and not stagnant (meaning just laying there), your legs are not extended the same look at the bone structure now of your opponent, his shoulders are turned because of your 1 extended leg, so his shouders are turned one way, his hips another, if he doesn't try to compensate he will be off balance and in a very weak position, when your opponent tries to compensate or get in a better and stronger position, you use his monentum and movement agaist him, this is basically the spider game.
Having both feet on the biceps is not a waste of time. Sometimes it can be good to go to that position to stop a particular pass or something. But usually you'll move away from that position in order to attack. It's more important to extend one leg and retract the other and be sideways.
Also, with all the spider guard feet placements (foot on bicep, instep on bicep, bicep slicer position, hamstring on shoulder, etc.), I often like to grab the pants with my other hand. It stops most passes and sets him up for a sweep if he puts his weight on you.
Ok, just to change the spider guard position slightly. Now lets assume we are in the spider guard position where you have your left foot on your opponents right bicep. Your right shin is on your opponent's right shin and you are hooking his left leg with your right arm.
Now that there is no hip control, it is difficult to stretch your opponent out. If your opponent puts lots of forward pressure on, I normally switch to an x-guard or even half guard. Is there any way of maintaining spider from here?
I always considered the spider guard to be when you had a sleeve grip and your leg loops around his forearm and your foot hooks behind his tricep...but anyways...
"It's more important to extend one leg and retract the other and be sideways."...And to clarify sideways...Not just on your side, but at and angle to him...Your line from your head to @ss should not be in line with him. It should be at an angle. Also, more than just extending and retracting the legs...extend you leg and lift his elbow above his head while retracting the other leg forcing that elbow of his down.
Mighty also makes good points about extending and retracting, live hips trying to off balance opponent.
Some very good people I roll w/maintain both feet on biceps when the opponents stands doing the above...I'm not a fan of it at that point. I prefer to transition to de la riva. De la Riva is excellent for a standing opponent no matter what their size and it has to be one of the smoothest transitions between 2 diff guards.
The beauty of the spider hook & biceps is the freedom of movement that it allows you to have...off balancing and attacking from all angles to keep him guessing eg...
- turn one of you feet so that your toe is pointing down and threaten an oma plata
- take this foot off the bicep and in a wide circular pendulum motion swing this leg around and behind him (ready to place as a de la riva hook) while the other foot is on his bicep and lifting his arm to sweep him at a backwards angle
- bring the de la riva (ready) foot back to his arm hooked behind his tricep and bring the shin across his stomach threaten another sweep.
...these were off-balancing moves in different directions, not just left-right. Both feet on biceps position is left/right symmetrical so all sub threats and sweeps can easily be done to both sides.
Not a fan of both feet on hips while he's standing unless I have good control of both sleeves or I'm transitioning to the other foot on hip. Otherwise it can be difficult not to get them collapsed on or hip jammed and thrown in the air.
GOOD LUCK...I consider this (controlling distance when opponent stands) to be a major difference in reaching the next level in someone's game. I see brown belts toying w/blue belts in this area, while the blue belts are struggling to figure it out. One of the keys is to notice his posture and balance and realize when he's about to stand, so that you react at the same time, rather than later :-)
"The beauty of the spider hook & biceps is the freedom of movement that it allows you to have...off balancing and attacking from all angles to keep him guessing eg... - turn one of you feet so that your toe is pointing down and threaten an oma plata - take this foot off the bicep and in a wide circular pendulum motion swing this leg around and behind him (ready to place as a de la riva hook) while the other foot is on his bicep and lifting his arm to sweep him at a backwards angle - bring the de la riva (ready) foot back to his arm hooked behind his tricep and bring the shin across his stomach threaten another sweep. "
I may know most of those sweeps but could you please elaborate a bit and mention if it's the left foot or the right one that goes on the right or left bicep/hamstring, etc.? You don't need to go into too much detail, just a little bit so I'll get which sweeps you're talking about.