Greetings to everyone from the wine state of Pinot Noir and Chardonnay.
tell me guys, where exactly is Willamette Valley? Can anyone give me more info? I'm planning a 2-3 week visit in the near future. Anyone here like wine? I'm an aspiring sommelier. Also, how far is it from the SBG gym? I'll try to drop by and do a little training if it fits my schedule.
Thanks
TOBY
The Gym number is 503-230-7924 we are right off the freeway and easy to find. Give Toni a call when you get in town and she can give you directions from wherever you may be.
I'll do my best to make it on that holiday. I might bring some wine afficionados with me too.
Thanks guys and hope to touch base soon.
Happy Holidays
TOBY
Hi Toby
Sorry, couldn't help responding to your post. I'm from the KDT Academy in Malaysia (Matt probably remembers a group of us coming down to his seminar in Singapore earlier this year)
I thought I was the only one around who loved wine and grappling. It's a combination that's a bit out of place where everyone else I know talks about protein shakes and juices (the organic variety!)
Tried rolling once after trying a Salon 1995 and a La Mission Haut Brion 1970..all I can say is that playing the guard sucks in that state but the upside is that you don't feel too much pain when someone slaps on a submission...
All the best in becoming the next Michael Broadbent or Hugh Johnson!
Cheers
Mike
Don't forget to visit the beaverton sbgi while your here. Located a block away from the max commuter train that runs out of downtown portland.
Dave
valan5,
Bro, you guys OK back there in Malaysia? That freaking tidal wave claimed a lot of lives a few days ago. Was relieved though that it barely missed the Philippines. That sucks. 20000 dead and counting.
So there's an SBG gym in Malaysia? Cool! Hope you guys could drop by the philippines so I could hook you guys up with my teammates in BJJ and Muay Thai. We're the Philippine chapter of the Carlson Gracie/BJJ Revolution Team.
1970 Haut Brion??? a 70s vintage??? How much did that cost??? Way cool bro! =)
Thanks for the info everyone. Happy Holidays. Maligayang pasko sa inyong lahat.
TOBY
Mike, I hope you guys are well. . .that was a serious wave.
Matt/Toby
Thanks for the note of concern. Yes, it was quite bad. Most of it was located on the island of Penang, which is a well-known beach resort like Phuket.It's quite sad that the loss of lives was so great, being the peak holiday season especially
What was scary was that the tremors could be felt on the other side of the country. That's something like 500km away from Penang and and the buildings still shook in towns that far away.
Hi Toby,
The KDT Academy (where I train) is not an SBG affiliate yet but I don't think the owner, Vince, minds me saying that all of us here are huge admirers of SBGI and it's principles; which is why some of us made the trip down for Matt's seminar. Matt, we are looking forward to seeing you during your trip down to Singapore this year.
The Haut Brion was a barter trade. I gave up a Bollinger RD 1990 for it. To be frank, I think I got done. It was on it's last legs and the fruit had dissipated somewhat.
I'd like to drop into the Philipines sometime and train with your crew; I think they are in contact with our group via email.Appreciate the offer of assistance there. Btw, congrats on your performance at the Dog Brother's gathering...you're one tough dude!
To all the SBGer's out there. Have a happy and safe holiday ahead!
Mike
Thanks for the kind words bro. The only thing that bothers me is that we got a lot of business partners in Indonesia and my bro couldn't touch base with them for the past 2 days bec most of the lines are cut. I sure hope they're ok.
Toby-
Send me a PM on Stick-and-Knife and I will send you contact info.
I live in Portland - we can do some FFS when you are up here!!
TacticalGrappler,
Good to see you on this forum. I really liked reading your judo related posts on the other forums as I still do Judo as well as BJJ.I felt they portrayed the wholistic nature of Judo as a martial art,combat sport and cultural tradition.
Toby
I believe the Indonesia's mobile networks are really jammed, that's why you probably haven't been able to get through. Fixed lines should be better now though.
Do you do FFS? If so, that's great. We had a former student of his, Adam Kayoom, showing us some of his material. Of all the FMA I've seen, I like it the most
Cheers
Was the part of Indonesia which is next to Singapore affected by it all?
Valan-
Thanks. Too often in judo people become hyper-attached to one element that they ignore the others. What I find interesting is how even advanced judo people have done little reading about Kano, his ideas, and his student's memoirs to get the picture of the man and his vision.
I once told a more traditionally minded fellow that I thought that Kano approached JJ and the classical Japanese arts almost with a JKD/SBG approach - focussed on training in an "alive" manner.
Of course Kano was more focussed on preserving the traditional aspects, but with a practical eye. He got rid of others and took on a more athletic, though not necessarily sportive, approach. He was very open minded and had karate instructors, JJ instructors, and weapons instructors all come to teach at the Kodokan, and sent his students out to other teachers to learn more.
He KNEW judo was incomplete in certain areas, according to what has been reported by some of his own students, because, for instance, he sent them to learn weapons skills that judo did not emphasize. He was even talking about starting to add striking to randori practice because he noticed that students practiced striking only in kata, and their striking ability was far outstripped by their grappling ability practiced in an "alive" fashion. Considering that he knew kendo people and moved in their circles, it is fascinating to speculate if he may have one day added "alive" weapons training to randori as well.
Check out the writings of Tomiki Kenji, of Tomiki Aikido fame, as well. Tomiki started the move toward adding striking and weapons defense to randori, and was a student of Kano and heavily influenced by his thought. These articles and many others on Kano can be found at Aikidojournal.com. You have to join up to get the full articles, but I have seen no better collection of Kano related articles and commentary, including major excerpts from his autobiography, on the web - INCLUDING Judoinfo.com. If you are interested in Kano and the historical development of JJ and Judo it is well worth the membership price.
You can get Tomiki articles there as well.
TacticalGrappler,
Great points. When I first started Judo, I intuitively knew it was 'alive' but didn't know how to articulate it. Same with Jits and Boxing, which is funny as people tell me because as a Chinese with 1,000 kung-fu styles in my cultural heritage to choose from - I choose a western striking art.
It was only after I found the SBG website that the 'lightbulb' went off and I did more research into Judo's historical roots. Agree with you on the strking and weapons part. I have a feeling that if Kano had lived into the latter part of the 20th century - he may have taken advantage of the technical refinements in protective gear to incorporate these.
I find it interesting that his other students went out and a lot turned to aikido. Is this part of an eastern perception that a shift to mysticism or the softer arts will make you a better fighter when you get older?
Valan
I studied for a short time on the Chinese mainland, practicing taiji and other systems. I vividly remember a non-martial arts student there asking me once "Why don't you do Western boxing, a style where they actually hit each other?" It took me a while longer to wake up to common sense.
RE: Aikido
Kano once said that aikido was "true judo," or something along those lines. It actually angered one of his students to hear that.
Some of his other statements showed that he was opposed the head down, muscular, "locking horns" style of grappling that often comes when strength takes the place of technique - as in a lot of judo training. He also opposed training that led to injury, which makes for interesting speculation on how he might view a lot of judo today.
And if you look at Kito-ryu, which he was licensed in and based much of his judo standing methods on, its kata have a lot of aiki-style stuff in it, including several throws that are aikido throws(Ueshiba also studied Kito-ryu).
That's why when I watch the really good BJJ guys, the ones who stay relaxed, fluid and technical, using points of balance and weight against guys of all different sizes I like to wonder if Kano might not reconsider his ideas re: groundfighting and judo.
This is of course heresy in most judo dojo. But there are several high level aikido folks out there who have studied BJJ and written about how its flow and strategies are very similar to aikido. Tim Cartmell has said the same in comparing BJJ to Chinese Internal styles.
The key difference is that the latter kind of technical flow has been developed against resistance, whereas in aikido its not.
I like to think, and it is a huge presumption on my part, that is what Kano meant....
This is a great thread.
I always felt Kano was probably the greatest Martial Arts reformer of the last 200 Years.
"He also opposed training that led to injury, which makes for interesting speculation on how he might view a lot of judo today."
I also think good BJJ CAN be that method, when done in the proper environment.
"That's why when I watch the really good BJJ guys, the ones who stay relaxed, fluid and technical, using points of balance and weight against guys of all different sizes I like to wonder if Kano might not reconsider his ideas re: groundfighting and judo."
This is very-very true.
I find it somewhat ironic that what many people are looking for in Arts such as Aikido, Tai Chi, etc, is in reality what proper BJJ can be. I think a different marketing has to occur to help make that point, but I do find it to be a fact.
"I find it somewhat ironic that what many people are looking for in Arts such as Aikido, Tai Chi, etc, is in reality what proper BJJ can be. I think a different marketing has to occur to help make that point, but I do find it to be a fact. "
Absolutely.
But there has to be a paradigm shift amongst people to accomplish it. Too often we tend to develop a bias in terms of martial culture as well as the combat vs. sport bias: "THAT'S NOT JAPANESE!" or "THAT'S NOT CLASSICAL CHINESE BOXING!" are often heard - never mind that what is actually being done in an unfamiliar (and in this case BJJ/grappling) context may be a much more functional expression of the very same principles.
Guys like Tim Cartmell FORCE people to overcome that bias due to his background. Folks really can't argue with his many years spent training with well known teachers, ability to read the original texts, and much closer connection to "what the masters really meant," coupled with the fact that he is an avid proponent of BJJ methodology and casts it in the same terms that the trad. Chinese practitioners embrace. Such things can only be ignored by the most obstinate of "Ostrich Stylists."
Of course he would most likely argue that embodying the "internal," or what someone else would say was manifesting "aiki," really has nothing to do with the name and cultural origin of the art but simply is what happens at the higher levels of martial discipline period.
It should be much the same no matter where its from so long as the practitioner can embody those principles. In terms of application though, there are certainly better ways to go about it if the idea is "keeping it real." Which is I think the real issue in the "my style vs. your style," "combat vs. sport" debate.
"there are certainly better ways to go about it if the idea is "keeping it real." Which is I think the real issue in the "my style vs. your style," "combat vs. sport" debate."
YES, that better way has to be experiental. The history, culture, is simply more baggage, although I agree it may draw a certain type in.
The environment, methodology, and group of people will be the biggest factors.
Everything else. . .everything being spoken off. . .does NOT need to be spoken off. . .but instead can be left to the athlete to find, experience, first hand. . .in the "roll". I don't mean that in terms of this conversation, which is good. I mean during the class itself.
BJJ is REAL. . .the roll is not choreographed. That Aliveness is what opens the door to everything those people (who are "sincere") that are drawn to Aikido, and other such Arts are really after. Making that known, while at the sametime leaving it open for them to find and define on their own, is going to be an Art in and of itself.
We are working on it.
Great thread!!!!!!!!
Kano's influence still emanates through the MA and believe it or not BJJ.
-Luis
Matt/Luis, you are right, this is a good thread.
TacticalGrappler,
It may not surprise me if Kano said that aikido looked like "true judo." but I disagree with that. Judo came from the various Jujitsu styles,like Kito ryu etc and if you want to trace an more refined, stripped down version - then, that's the path Morihei Ueshiba took.
But then, why does Judo look so different? For the simple reason that 'randori' forces the original art into a continual state of addition and deletion so much so that what may have been the originator's visual perception of what it should look like will always be different with the introduction of aliveness through randori
It is not so much that Judo entered the Olympics and became un-traditional or whatever as purists would like to believe. it was the increasing commercialisation of the games, the emphasis on winning at all costs (to the total disregardation of injuries to one's self or your opponent) that has changed Judo.