Overhook guard vs. tight defence

I'm a bit bored at work, so I thought I'd do something different for a change and ask a technical question. Here goes:

I have my opponent in my guard and I've overhooked one of his arms. I would like to scoot my hips out and triangle choke him by either sliding my shin past his bicep (pushing his arm out) or push his wrist towards his stomach and snaking my leg past the OTHER side of his arm.

Anyway, my opponent counters this by keeping his non-overhooked arm tight back to my hip, more specifically, his elbow to the outside of my hips. Now I can't do the triangle (or omo plata).

My question is, what can I do in this situation?

I actually know one move from here: Insert your hooks and try to sweep him towards his non-overhooked side. Either he will go over or base out with his arm or leg. If he bases out with his leg, you can try to push on the knee/shin of that leg with your leg, sweeping him to his back. If he bases out with his arm, you can put your shin in his bicep and proceed with your triangle choke or even omoplata.

But the problem with that move is that I don't really like to do an elevator sweep with an overhook, especially starting out pretty much flat on my back, because if it fails, and he gets past my legs, he is side mounting me with a far underhook.



Do the "new school" http://grapplearts.com/Rubber-Guard-Setup-2.htm

except, when you clasp your hands together, put your right forearm against the right side of his head(left from your point of view). Hold his head in place as you move your hips to your left, and turn your body so you are perpendicular to him , like you want to armbar his left arm. Once you get far enough out you will be able to go for the omoplata or triangle no matter what he does with his left arm. If he stubbornly keeps his arm there, then you can get an armbar on his left arm.

To me, that is the great advantage of hooking your leg with your arm, rather than just overhooking. When you do this leg hook, you can use your arms as a frame to push his head away.

The benefit of doing it as shown in the photos is that you can keep his head down a little better.

So I'm guessing that you have been experimenting a bit with the rubber guard? Suddenly it seems like a few guys in here have been doing just that, like Bonton and FreestyleJJ, I think.

So you're saying that he will not be able to block my hips coming out like that, with his elbow? Actually, is there a good counter for the new school that he COULD do?

Finally, I don't feel comfortable getting my right leg over his left arm like that, if I'm not using my right arm to push his wrist out. Any pointers on that, for submission grappling (no strikes, where I can use his punches to my atvantage)?

I've been doing the new school a lot. I don't like the first set up where you just hook the head.

He shouldn't ever be able to stop you from moving your hips with just his arm.
But anyways it's half hip movement, half pushing his head away. You don't need to move your hips that much.

Let's say he keeps his left elbow on the mat with all his weight on it. Don't try to get your right leg over his left arm to do the triangle/omoplata. Just throw your right leg over his face and armbar his left arm.

edit - the reason it's easy to throw your right leg over his head is because you are pushing his head down towards your right leg.

To escape the new school I just try to bend my arm downwards and limp arm out, ready to escape the omoplata. There are probably better solutions though.

Thanks, Andrew.

I dunno Jon,

the hooksweep to the non-overhooked arm is a great move..

if you are flat then scoot your hips out to the side of the overhook and insert the hook...then grab the other elbow or the head, pull him to yourself and sweep...one hook is enough..no need to put the second in.

the second move i have seen done is a basic flower/pendulum/whatevername sweep to the other side.. since you have a good overhook you can grab under his leg on the other side, turn hips and to the motion..


the rubber guard stuff is very nice and increases the omoplata percentage especially. I do just what andrew was saying for the "new school". With the differences he was talking about, that's what bravo is callnig "the london".

I was actually unable to figure out a counter to the london myself, since I am the only person where I'm at regularly using it, so I haven't actually had to defend it. My instructor came up with a pretty decent counter though. The strength of the london is supported by your right foot being in their hip pocket. So since getting your upper body out is going to be tricky, the goal is to get their foot off your hip. Do this by keeping low on them and possibly bear hugging them even to keep them in line with you and from going to omoplata. Then sit your legs out like you're doing a scarf hold and then sit back to your knees(clearing their foot off your hip). From there they loose a bit of their strength since their foot is stuck off the hip and you can break free easier

thats the best solution I have seen so far

For what it's worth, here's a tip that helped my overhook guard game:

Right after getting the overhook, get a foot on the hip on the non-overhooked side. That way, he can't drive into you, which would make triangles almost impossible.

Things seem to open up after that.

Andrew and FreestyleJJ how do you get the triangle from London? The two basic ways: holding his wrist and sliding the leg through or pushing his wrist to his chest and throwing your leg over? Is there another way? If not how do you make those work if he´s holding your leg really tight like Jonpall said? The omo plata seems like the easiest from there but the triangle is my favorit move so I´d really like to get it :).


If you look at the link that Andrew put up, you can see one way to do the triangle, but the setup is coming off of a punch, so in straight grappling it's kinda hard. The way I've seen it, the london is more more suitable to the omo-plata like you said. The triangle directly from the london comes more or less if they just make a mistake and put their arm under your leg. Then just refer to that link above and finish them. You can however always move out to the omo-plata and then transition back to your triangle if the omoplata isn't working out for you(that's an important transition to learn anyhow). Going directly from the london to a triangle is kinda hard in grappling, unless they make a mistake of course.

Thanks Freestyle.


From that sequence, can't they overhook your right leg and keep you from getting the omoplata, triangle, or armbar? I guess it'd be a waiting game then. Or am I missing something?

If you just want to do the triangle from that position, you can unclasp your hands, grab his right shoulder with your left hand, and use your right hand to either pin his arm to his torso and throw your leg over, or push his arm away from his torso and push your leg through. Which one you do will depend on what he's doing.

One sets up the other. When you try to push his arm to his body, he will move his arm away from his body. When you try to move his arm away from his body, he will move his arm towards his body.

If you keep moving and trying different things, you will get something, but let's say he's stalling successfully. In that case, you still get to grind your elbow into his face, so it's still good times.

ANA: "I'm looking forward to Spring. Good times."

MOLLY: "Good times."

ANA: "Yeah. Well Terri, Spring envokes so many gustetorial goodies. Like lettuce."

MOLLY: "Yeah, baby lettuce."

ANA: "Yeah. And hearts of lettuce. Gosh, my notes for this show are kind of lame."

MOLLY: "Yeah, we really shouldn't have rocked out so hard last night at the cashew festival."

if you have the overhook go to "london" or "new york"


I got this from one of Michael Jen's tapes and i almost never see people use it yet i have great success with it from the wizzer guard. lots of guys are wary of the armbar/triangle with the non-overhooked arm. so put your forearm in the throat or do the standard Gi choke from the Wizzer in order to get the opponents non overhooked arm closer to you and control his sleeve with your wizzer arm (with the Gi you let go of your opponents lapel and grab the sleeve - without it just grab his wrist with your thumb up)

Now (assuming you wizzered with your left arm) you should be controlling both his arms with your left. if his elbow was on your body, then this is the standard feed for the armbar on his left arm ... but its not, his left elbow is outside your hips.

so take your right arm that should be unoccupied, post it on the mat as your roll up to your right hand, uncross your ankles and go into sit up position and proceed to Hip Bump him in that direction (over his left arm in this case) you should end up in the mount as usual.

sounds complicated and may feel awkard but its great cuz the opponent is usually ready to defend against a climbing attack from the wizzer guard and gets caught off guard when you hip heist.

So, what's with the random Delicious Dish reference? :)

Don't forget about the straight armlock on their right arm from this sequence too, by moving your hips out to the left and bringing your left leg on the back of their elbow...