Most any set up I learn for the rear naked choke ends with the figure four being on "top", but recently through watching a lot of Vagner Rocha he shoots the arm through and will finish a gable grip rnc with the lock on the bottom. Set ups you guys like, or reasons this is beneficial?
FWIW, I teach the palm to palm RNC as THE basic choke, because if your opponent is much bigger than you, you may not be able to lock a closed RNC. People get used to rolling with people close to them in size, which means they can most always lock the RNC, but when there is a major size difference, that's just not possible, but you can still usually lock a palm-to-palm choke. However, a palm to palm choke takes a just little bit more skill to get tight.
As far as finishing on the "wrong" side, I don't think there's an advantage in terms of choke mechanics & theoretically it's a little bit easier to escape that side, but obviously, it works even on the "wrong" side and somethimes that's just the most expedient way to do it.
I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
I don't really do "wrong side", I will be directly behind if I'm trying to go over the jaw Braulio style, but size differential is a big factor in strategizing the back attack because your legs probably aren't big enough for body lock and if your hips are behind his so that you can have your hooks, then his shoulders are above your chin and you're getting smothered... I'll often do palm to palm in no gi or bow/arrow type grip in gi but kind of in N/S position... A lot of people are familiar with the chok, but the transition is the special sauce details where I plan on making a youtube vid on this.
MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone might. Just not anything I do or know about.
Clasped hands choke…right? wrong side?
I do it all the time and teach it as a primary over the rnc. I do a mix of details i learned from judo sensei, relson, etc that make it vicious. Many of the detail are similar for sliding collar and wing choke. Nobody on receiving end likes it, so unless we are working positional sparring and worming up to max intensity on attack/defense, I usually dont do it. Unless you piss me off…then I pop your head like a ripe zit.
Sgt. Slaphead - Clasped hands choke....right? wrong side?I do it all the time and teach it as a primary over the rnc. I do a mix of details i learned from judo sensei, relson, etc that make it vicious. Many of the detail are similar for sliding collar and wing choke. Nobody on receiving end likes it, so unless we are working positional sparring and worming up to max intensity on attack/defense, I usually dont do it. Unless you piss me off…then I pop your head like a ripe zit.
I’m interested, any video to reference? Or details you’d be cool to share? Sometimes I can get a little obsessive about techniques so I’m intrigued. A side note, Lovato Jr. has shown a sequence involving switching the side you and uke are laying on and catching this choke, I just haven’t had the opportunity to train with him this week, but Sgt. I am all ears!
indunno about any videos, i dont watch a lot. As for details…too hard to use words to describe what takes plce to breakdown the defence, create the pressure, etc…I explain it asi go through it and then have the person do it to me as i coach tjem. That just cant work innwritten text.
easy positional detail is…pressure begins from the harness position. I use my head to pressure theirs and im clamping them all around their torso. No space, elbows clammped down, fist compressing their chest a d my chest smashing tbeir back. After that there is a bunch of hand, arm, head details… until death takes place!!!
Demian Maia does this sometimes as well.
Honestly you're going to be seeing more RNCs where the figure-four is down (choking arm knuckles facing the floor).
This is because people are starting to see the power and versatility in taking the back with the seatbelt/harness and falling to the side of the bottom arm instead of the top arm.
When you fall to the top arm side and get the RNC then your lock is going to be on top/facing the ceiling. Now that people are going to the other side for either the armbar, reverse triangle, or the straight jacket hand-fighting sequence to the RNC, you will either end up with your lock facing the floor, or you can go across your hips to the other side as you lock the full RNC.</p>
shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here.
</p>
https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
mata_leaos -shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here. </p>https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
absolutely great vid, but I don't really consider that wrong side...Rocha moves to maintain his head behind his opponent as best as possible. A key detail is driving your bicep forward to make sure your opponent cant turn his head towards you. Rocha was able to clasp his hands in time.
In the gi, a lot of people lose control in this situation b/c they have a lapel choke grip with the right hand. When you have a lapel grip you are generally pulling but when your opponent turns towards you, that's the reason why he can escape. So I punch my arm across so that my bicep is pushing his jaw to look away from me. Then I put the back of my head behind his head. My bicep & head pinch together and I come to my knees behind him.
Meatgrinder -mata_leaos -shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here. </p>https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
absolutely great vid, but I don't really consider that wrong side...Rocha moves to maintain his head behind his opponent as best as possible. A key detail is driving your bicep forward to make sure your opponent cant turn his head towards you. Rocha was able to clasp his hands in time.
In the gi, a lot of people lose control in this situation b/c they have a lapel choke grip with the right hand. When you have a lapel grip you are generally pulling but when your opponent turns towards you, that's the reason why he can escape. So I punch my arm across so that my bicep is pushing his jaw to look away from me. Then I put the back of my head behind his head. My bicep & head pinch together and I come to my knees behind him.
I've been attacking the back on the underhook side a ton, so this is just what I was referencing. So you attack collar choke on the "weak side" and then if uke turns to try to face, you punch the collar gripping hand and go palm to palm, yes?
mata_leaos -shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here. </p>https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
Also one of my favorite matches of Vagners to watch, not only for the back, but using the Kimura to reverse position.
Ahhh thanks for vid. But is clasped hands choke a new thing…LOL???
Meatgrinder -mata_leaos -shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here. </p>https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
absolutely great vid, but I don't really consider that wrong side...Rocha moves to maintain his head behind his opponent as best as possible. A key detail is driving your bicep forward to make sure your opponent cant turn his head towards you. Rocha was able to clasp his hands in time.
In the gi, a lot of people lose control in this situation b/c they have a lapel choke grip with the right hand. When you have a lapel grip you are generally pulling but when your opponent turns towards you, that's the reason why he can escape. So I punch my arm across so that my bicep is pushing his jaw to look away from me. Then I put the back of my head behind his head. My bicep & head pinch together and I come to my knees behind him.
I ise my side forehead for pressure at angle, cut/crossface with right hand clasp hands…lever left elbow down. In go primary attack is sliding coller, alternate wing choke or clasphands
Sgt. Slaphead -Meatgrinder -mata_leaos -shen -MonoplataJones -I had honestly never considered the size differential problem, not the biggest guy, but long armed. The wrong side has always felt more difficult mechanically, but I guess I was asking more along the lines of is there a grip fighting sequence you or anyone else uses that makes it advantageous, or is it solely based on expedience?
<p> <span class="User-104950" id="userPost61417253">I don't really do the choke on the wrong side either, but I could see a situation where someone <em>might.</em> Just not anything I do or know about.</span></p>
Here's a video of the finish that I think the TS is talking about. it's my personal favorite grip fighting sequence to get the RNC right now.
Since Vagner Rocha is on the side of his bottom seatbelt arm, if he wants the full RNC/figure four grip then it can be an inconvenience to get the left arm behind the head while laying on that side. So he could either switch hips or just go palm to palm like he does here. </p>https://www.instagram.com/p/BVu1_SgFNjK/?taken-by=bjjscout
absolutely great vid, but I don't really consider that wrong side...Rocha moves to maintain his head behind his opponent as best as possible. A key detail is driving your bicep forward to make sure your opponent cant turn his head towards you. Rocha was able to clasp his hands in time.
In the gi, a lot of people lose control in this situation b/c they have a lapel choke grip with the right hand. When you have a lapel grip you are generally pulling but when your opponent turns towards you, that's the reason why he can escape. So I punch my arm across so that my bicep is pushing his jaw to look away from me. Then I put the back of my head behind his head. My bicep & head pinch together and I come to my knees behind him.
I ise my side forehead for pressure at angle, cut/crossface with right hand clasp hands…lever left elbow down. In go primary attack is sliding coller, alternate wing choke or clasphands
Not new at all! Old school as could be, but I just started attacking the back on the underhook side 3 months ago, so it’s new to me.
Time for a meatgrinder video