Liddell is clearly a very hard hitter - something karate is renowned for. He even has a tatoo (as you all know) proclaiming his background. So why does no one ever talk about his karate?
The fight science show proved that boxers were the harder punchers.
Which show? If you can provide a name that'd be great. I'd like to see it.
Because what he does inside the cage looks very much like kick-boxing?
I don't really see Lidell in a karate stance throwing reverse punches that much do you?
Even if his style is Kempo Karate, it just doesn't "look" like what you think of when you hear the word Karate.
I'm not saying he is utilizeing karate style, just that his background gave him a solid basis.
the kempo thumb is strog...when donr properly no can defense........
"I don't really see Lidell in a karate stance throwing reverse punches that much do you?"
The "reverse punch" we've all come to know and love is a training drill designed to teach turning the hips/body into a punch while grabbing something and pulling it back towards you.
Problem is, lots of karate orgs believe performance of the drills (in their exaggerated form) is more important than being able to use the skills they are supposed to develop.
He's a second degree Black Belt in Koei-Kan Karate Do.
A traditional style of Japanese (not Okinawan) Karate.
'Even if his style is Kempo Karate, it just doesn't "look" like what you think of when you hear the word Karate'
Well, what you think of anyway
His KEMPO is from a system called KAJUKENBO it is a hybrid art that came out after WW II from a mix of Japanese and Chinese fighters. Very effective art that was one of the first real mixed martial training methods in America (1947). Over 20 years before Bruce Lee these Hawaiian guys were taking the best from different styles and making one tough art. Some of the instructors from the style are boxing champions! Most all the Kenpo in America is a sub system of Kajukenbo. The traditional Kaju guys are just really into street stuff and not at all interested in much of the "sports" of martial arts. They are big on groin strikes and grabs, throat strikes, finger breaking, and eye gouging, it is actually taught to punch and put a thumb in the eye on close range fighing or during a clinch.
"He's a second degree Black Belt in Koei-Kan Karate Do. A traditional style of Japanese (not Okinawan) Karate."
What is the difference between Japanese and Okinawan karate?
a ha! look at that last sentence!
"What is the difference between Japanese and Okinawan karate?"
This is a general summation of what I've figured out listening to a bunch of karate guys on the web talking about karate.
Japanese karate is very standardized - there is only one correct way to do any given technique/kata etc. It typically values form over function. The individual techniques are exaggerated - the feet are wide apart in a stance, the opposite hand ALWAYS gets pulled back to the hip, kicks are done to the waist or higher etc etc. Non striking methods are completely devalued.
Okinawan karate is less restrictive. It values function over form (IOW if it doesn't keep your ass intact its wrong). Feet are closer together, kicks go low. The punching is a bit unusual in that the general idea is to smack a soft area with the fist often with a protruding knuckle to concentract the force on a smaller surface. Non striking methods are considered a good idea but ONLY if you wind up in a position where you can't hit them.
"I don't see anything in Chuck's style that represents karate."
Therein is the problem with how karate is being taught.
"The last time we saw a karate guy was Fred Ettish."
Adapt or die. If Ettish had kept fighting MMA, would he look similar to the way he did in his first fight or would he look more like Liddell?
"If karate is trying to take credit for Chuck, they're out of their minds."
LOL - karate is a loose body of knowledge, it can't take credit for anything any more than calculus can take credit for my getting a job as programmer.
"But who knows, maybe next fight Chuck will get into the horse stance and start giving people karate chops!"
See? You've proved my point. What people think of as karate is influenced by pop culture (who gave us the "judo" and "karate" chop) and training drills gone awry.
Rampage mentioned Chuck's kempo background and how eye gouging etc. is part of the system. It was in a Rampage video interview on here a while ago. Quinton seemed to feel that Chuck uses Kempo in all his fights.
They're just jealous.
Karate does build a very solid base. Look at K1 fighters or Gomi for examples.