I dunno what happened to the first post. Anyway,
what are opions about pepperspray? Effectiveness and the weak image is projects are my concerns.
meltonts,
Weak image? How so? Do you mean people would think you're a whimp for carrying it? I would disagree with that. It's just another tool.
How effective? For the citizen, pepper spray is a good tool to facilitate an escape from a bad situation. It won't drop people where they stand or make them handcuff themselves. And there can also be a delay before it takes effect. The primary benefit is that it makes the eyes shut. But if the bad guy has already grabbed you he can use the braille method to pummel you.
Like everything else it works great on some people, good on most people and on some people it won't have any effect at all.
Chief
I found a can in my house a while back and took it outside and sprayed it on the side of the house. When I went to wash it off with the hose, it splashed back on me. I was messed up, my eyes shut and I couldn't breath. I was definitely outa commision for awhile. After that experience I carried a can for a year. I have gotten more shit from people for carrying it than anything else. It has actually been the start of confrontations. I've had people dare me to spray them and then start shoving me.
An article in the Modesto Bee this morning said that a
SWAT team used a pepperball gun to subdue a man in a
trailer park in Snelling. The photo of the gun and ammo
looked like a paintball gun. Have any of you used one
of these things? Are they usually effective? Are they
available to the general public. Can a civilian obtain
and fire pepperballs with a standard paint ball gun. It
looks like a good non-lethal way to subdue someone at a
distance.
grandpab,
The balls that you speak of are not available for civilian use. But you're not missing out on much. The "pepperball" delivery system is not an efficient vehicle for OC (oleoresin capsicum).
OC needs to get on you, specifically in your eyes to be most effective. In an open or well ventilated area it is difficult to achieve a dense enough "dosage" to insure that the chemical agent generates an effect. Ferret rounds loaded with OC used to penetrate vehicle windows can work because of the limited area (or "air-ia".) CS is a more effective agent in outdoor or enclosed structure applications.
Here's an old SWAT party trick...apply pepper spray to some popcorn and dig in. Now THAT'S a party!
Chief
What is an effective dosage, 10% in a spray? Is the foam better?
meltonts,
Some people get really wrapped up in the various percentages available of OC. It would take a Scott Sonnon-length dissertation to adequately explain all of that and the whys and why-nots. And in my experience all of those issues are pretty meaningless in a practical application.
Suffice it to say that it's all about the SHU's or Scoville Heat Units. This, logically enough, refers to a measurement of heat. If your formulation says 2 million SHU's then you're cooking, (no pun intended.)
Foam, spray or stream? I highly recomend foam. You can see where it's landing and adjust your aim if need be. It is not as affected by wind. The chemical agent stays in the foam and you won't contaminate a room during use. And if you are lucky and get the bad guy right in the eyes, he won't be able to see while the OC begins to take effect.
Chief
"sonnon-length dissertation" LOL
I've heard that persons that have foam directed on them just tend to wipe it off, and the effect or result is a hit not as "potent"... Any truth to this? Also whereas you might have drift with spray, is there any residual drift with foam?
Monkeyman,
If you were to get hit in the face with pepperfoam, you would likely try to rub it away. But if the foam hit the eye area initially, it is going to generate an effect. By the time you're rubbing, it's too late. Further, the act of rubbing it away usually creates the oposite effect and serves to push the agent more into the eyes. This is something that is hard to overcome. Even trained cops tend to rub their eyes if they have been exposed and they KNOW that they shouldn't.
Wind drift? Not much. That's one of the main selling points of the foam. You may need to use your OC outside on a windy day.
Chief
Good info, thanks.
What about actual quantity spray vs. foam?
Also, I'll be getting some training with this over the next weekend will probably get a face full; other than staying relaxed and not hyperventilating - what else might I caution while "under the influence."???
Thanks ahead.
EbolaMonkey,
Staying calm is important. Even in training settings I've seen some pretty tough guys hyperventilate after being exposed to OC. This is a psychological and not a physiological phenomenon. As an inflammatory agent, OC does not affect the breathing apparatus like CS or CN would. The hyperventilation in these cases is what scientists refer to as "freaking out."
Water from a hose is optimum for decontaminating yourself afterwards. You need to flush the agent from your eyes and a steady stream of water works best. Some people like to use buckets of water as well. Have some paper towels handy as they will also help absorb the agent.
Buckets of water are great if you have your own or it can be refilled. You will NOT want to use a bucket after somebody else has dunked their head in it. OC causes people to release copious amounts of mucous. Scientists refer to these manifestations as "snot ropes."
Now where's my popcorn?
Chief
Aside from the quantity of spray and propellant, what is the difference between grizzly bear pepper spray and human pepperspray?
meltonts,
Man, that ain't nothing but packaging.
Chief