PGA Tour suspends all LIV golfers, both present and future

Gonna be difficult to determine how many points they get and how they stack up against other tours and players unless they play against them. If only past champs can get into majors, how do you compare the rest of LIV to the past champs? What happens when past champ exemptions run out or they are all old players without a real chance to win? Does that hurt their tour and how many points they should get? How are the college players who are taking a few of the 48 spots compared to other PGA/DP pros? Patrick Reed played an Asian tour event that gets far less points and came in 31st. We know he’s one of the top players in the world but does that change that tour? It could if more LIV players play like they have said they might. But most of them are trying to play less. I see LIV similar to that Asian Tour event. Less talent over all with a few studs. So should that get them the same amount of points? But then we run into all the other requirements.

I don’t envy those who will have to figure this out. Especially with all the perceived or real biases. If they get their own points though I don’t see an argument for them getting the same amount as the PGA or even DP tour. It’s weird how interesting I find all this.

Unfortunately it may be a couple years until we find out. And these aren’t new rules put in place to keep LIV out. Even if they are trying to make it seem that way in their letter to the OWGR board. Either LIV will have to wait like any other tour would (which hurts their players and is kinda going against what they said the PGA couldn’t do to the players they recruited) or the OWGR board is going to make special exemptions for them. Which since LIV is looking to beat the other tours, I don’t see happening. We will see though.

Another good article talking about OWGR points.

To tell the OWGR that LIV tournaments should earn points (both now and retroactively) is to say one or more of the following things, but not necessarily all:

1. The best players in the world are clear to us. When they play events, they should be eligible to earn points.

2. Fifty-four holes is a sufficient length of a pro golf event; perhaps all golf events.

3. Having a mid-tournament cut is not necessary to determine the OWGR points that should be issued.

4. If the best players in the world are playing good golf against some of the other best in the world, the current ranking itself is flawed to disclude that.

To tell LIV golfers they do not yet deserve points is to say one or more of the following things, but not necessarily all:

1. Rules are rules, be patient.

2. You knew this was the case, and you knew the consequences of your actions.

3. Fifty-four holes are not enough to consistently constitute a pro golf tournament.

4. There is no cut in your events, thus no clear way to cut off who should get points.

5. I support the PGA Tour in this civil war and don’t stand for LIV’s inclusion.

Dizzy yet?

“ It make seem like LIV and its players are making a simple case, but nothing about the ranking is simple. There are obviously important criteria to be considered. Things like the ability for pro golfers to qualify onto said tour. A qualifying school or something like it is a stipulation for acceptance. Or other stipulations such as the tour must administer events using the Rules of Golf. Another suggested piece of the puzzle is an average of 75 players or more competing in your tour’s events. That is an example of a flaw in LIV Golf’s system. It’s not bulletproof. Cam Smith beating a field of 47 others where only 20 or 30 would be good enough to sustain membership on, say, the PGA Tour is one thing. In the eyes of the OWGR board, adding 40 more golfers to that field makes it all the more substantial. ”

“ Ultimately, LIV Golf and its contracted players are bound to find out that there are rules. Are the rules fair? We’re not going to tell you they’re the fairest rules in all of sport. But they are the rules, both in the OWGR and on the PGA Tour. Rules in the same way it seems unfair to stand at the corner of a still intersection simply waiting for a walk symbol. There are no cars, it’s safe! But jay-walking is a violation of public code put in place to keep people safe. It is what it is.

The OWGR has operated like this for decades to uphold an unimpeachable level of integrity. There’s a reason why when the OWGR’s algorithms needed an update last summer, a 12-month holding period of the old system was maintained until those changes were initiated last month. Nothing about the OWGR moves fast. But nothing about LIV Golf has been normal.”

How do you give ranking points for a tour that has so few elite players. If Rory finished 10th at a PGA Tour event, he’s finished above far more Top 100 players than DJ would winning a LIV event.

The logistics are impossible. Look at MMA, who gives a fuck about overall Top 15 WW rankings? No one, they only care about the UFC Top 15. Who gives a fuck about the Champion of Bellator? No one, because they haven’t beaten any relevant to be Champion

Most sports have a Top League/Promotion, and then other pretenders. LIV is a pretender, and not a particularly good one so far. Their biggest mistake was getting Norman to be their face. I fucking loved Greg as a player, him and Seve got me into the game, but you don’t want Crocodile Dundee fronting your new venture lol

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Does the DP World Tour receive ranking points? How many Top 100 players regularly play that tour?

Even the Korn Ferry Tour gets ranking points. How many Top 100 players regularly play that tour?

The DP Tour has been going for half a century, the Korn Ferry o er a quarter of a century

You don’t just start up some golf tour in the middle of the Arab states and immediately become a tour that features on the world ranking ladder. It doesn’t matter how many big name players you have, that just isn’t gonna happen for so many reasons. From bullshit ones like elitism, to legitimate ones like LIV having absolutely no merit or ability to show it’s sustainability

Now longevity is the argument? What happened to the amount of Top 100 players?


It used to just be based on the Top 200 players and how many were in that event. Now it takes into consideration “strokes gained world ranking”. Which is round by round stroke play scores that are based on the difficulty of each round.

Also this “Players with fewer than 10 official rounds played will contribute 0.1 performance points to events”. So amateurs and college players could hurt the amount of points LIV receives.

Here’s an article breaking some of it down.

“The updated system incorporates modern statistical techniques which allows players and eligible tournaments to be more accurately evaluated relative to each other.

Changes include the distribution of Ranking Points to all players making the cut and the use of a Field Rating calculation based on a statistical evaluation of every player in the field, rather than just those in the field among the current Top-200 of the Ranking.

Major Championships will continue to award 100 First-Place Points, while THE PLAYERS Championship will award 80. All other tournaments will award Ranking Points according to the strength and depth of their fields, with a maximum of 80 First-Place Points.”

—-Notice how they use the cut as who should get points.

Although this is heavily skewed since the PGA event was a playoff event. And I believe ISPS had 1 player in the top 150. The comparison recently with a PGA event and a DP event was,
FedEx St Jude -
Field Ranking 398
1st place points 69
ISPS Honda-
Field ranking 47
1st place points 8

Tours eligible for OWGR points, plus a few more I couldn’t squeeze in the screen shot.


Every one of them currently holds more prestige and credence than LIV currently does


Perhaps you can regale me with tales of the prestige and credence of the Abema TV Tour, the Mena Tour, the Alps Tour or even perhaps the Nordic Golf League?

Must have lots of top 100 golfers?

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That’s not quite true at all. Fedor was always considered the 1 hw during his pride run and Anderson Silva was top ranked before the ufc

Overeem was ranked outside ufc

I’m sure there are ranked fighters now in other orgs

You forgot the big easy tour. The money and prestige from playing in a South African developmental tour is insane. I mean, if you win it you might have won about $5k in prize money and get to play on the sunshine tour (a SA/east African tour).

Or you could play for less prestige against guys like DJ and Smith I guess?

LIV Golf may have finally found a broadcast partner to air its tournaments in the U.S. After companies like NBC, CBS, Disney, Apple and Amazon , Fox Sports 1 is reportedly close to an agreement with LIV Golf,

But there’s a twist: Instead of Fox paying for the media rights, LIV will pay Fox for air time.

Oddly enough, Fox was initially among the broadcast companies that wouldn’t work with LIV. That changed when Lachlan Murdoch, the executive chairman and CEO of Fox Corp., reportedly forced the company to be involved with LIV, according to Golfweek.

LIV will also produce its tournament broadcast and be responsible for selling commercial sponsorship. Fox reportedly rejected LIV’s request for a media rights fee if Fox picks up the league for a second year but the company will reportedly “re-evaluate network placement at a later date.” It’s unknown if the partnership will start next year or include any of the three remaining LIV tournaments in Thailand, Saudi Arabia or at Trump Doral in Miami.

I was curious to put views in perspective on sunday like had 110k on youtube live streaming. Last night at 2am thailand time; the thailand womans vollyball team vs poland had 130k live views. Just an fyi

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I find it interesting that LIV not only is paying for the air time but also needs to find the sponsors for the commercial breaks. It does sound like Norman has been playing up the interest in LIV more than it is. Will be interesting to see what companies will buy commercial time from them.

I know they have basically endless money in a way. But I wonder if they thought they would be paying for this and doing the work for advertising. If their money is endless I figure they could just pay Fox and run it without commercials. Might be worth it to get the views.

PGA Countersuit

“Through this lawsuit, LIV asks the court to invalidate these wholly legitimate provisions with the stroke of a pen after inducing the remaining player plaintiffs to violate those same regulations with hundreds of millions of dollars in Saudi money,” the response read. “The player plaintiffs that have remained in the case – eight of the original eleven players have withdrawn their names from this lawsuit already – want only to enrich themselves in complete disregard of the promises they made to the Tour and its members when they joined the Tour.”

“ In the counterclaim, which seeks a jury trial and “damages … including lost profits,” the Tour argues that LIV Golf encouraged players to violate the Tour’s regulations.”

The counterclaim also cited Talor Gooch’s contract with LIV Golf, which required he “assist [LIV] in seeking to persuade players to enter into multiyear player participation agreements with [LIV].”

The Tour claimed LIV Golf convinced players “they may openly breach their contractual obligations to the Tour” and misled players into believing they could play both a full LIV Golf schedule and the PGA Tour.

“LIV’s statements regarding golfer freedom are a thinly veiled public relations ploy concocted to disparage the Tour and deflect criticism of LIV’s own restrictive business model,” the claim read.